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Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby eraserhead

Who are the young players he wants to see on tv? His mate Oli Lines can't make it past the second round and him and Kyren are on plenty. With the dress code I can see the point but it also gives snooker a unique look so don't know a solution. I think the home nations looks rubbish as everyones dressed the same.

BBC should keep JV and McManus and ditch everyone else. Parrot, Davis and Taylor just collect their pay and come out with the same sound bites and I've always found Ken rubbish. JV is good for the exciting moments and works well with whoever he's paired up with.

Only 2 watchable tables is a major problem that needs addressing. Early rounds of tournaments would probably benefit with the judgement day treatment where they cover pretty much every match.

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby cupotee

Iranu wrote:
cupotee wrote:i don't know how many tables there are across britain that respectably replicate pro conditions but it has to be very few indeed , if you've never played on pro tables before its like an assault on your senses especially if you're playing against a player much more experienced and a referee behind you , the difference is huge , laughably huge really .
i don't understand people , top pro's or anyone else complaining about the lack of interest or the lack of new young players coming through when there's virtually nowhere for youngsters to get familiarity of playing pro snooker in england , thats the main point everything else is a sideshow .

But again, this isn’t new. All young players have had to deal with the same thing over the years. Unless your suggesting there was easier access to pro conditions in years gone by?

With Q School specifically, maybe anybody who hasn’t been on the pro tour before could get a week at the venue prior to the tournament to practise on the tables or something.


my guess is the pro table used say in the 70's and probably even going up to the bce westbury used up until the end of the 92 93 ? season wouldn't have been as daunting to the relatively unaffiliated or inexperienced as the riley aristocrat tournament champion or the star xing pai used now , so the polarity is much more striking now as there's more good pro players difficult to shift than say the 70's and 80's and they're getting virtual round the clock experience with these cavalcade pro events , also progression onto the pro tour in say jimmy white's time was only through the english amateur system , i think they only offer one place a year to get on tour now , i don't think there was many new entrants beside him in 1980 , different parameters from then , i don't think there was easier access to pro conditions then its just that the polarity between pro conditions and the high street wasn't as striking in 1980 as it is in 2021 .

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby mick745

The lack of british youngsters is killing the sport in this country. As others have alluded it is the lack of stories, the "lovable" characters just arent there. Add to that the lack of youngsters breaking through (which is a story in itself) you can see where Judd is coming from.

It is difficult if nearly all the top players arent that interesting as the turnover of characters just isnt rapid enough.

If you last tuned in ten years ago you will still see many of the same faces, Selby, Robertson, Higgins, O'Sullivan, Murphy, etc. now.

When a new player does make a bit of a breakthrough like Wilson they just arent that interesting as people.

We are snooker junkies not casual fans. A player winning the world championship having won it 5 or 6 times previously and is who is now in their 40s is not that much of a deal to the wider public.

As a result the media arent interested except maybe once a year when the world champs is on.

I get strange looks from work colleagues when i say i am attending events usually they say "i used to watch it" but i doubt many have in a long while.

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby Running side

Trump has never said anything noteworthy in his career, he may be world no1 but as little personality, turns up play usually wins takes money and goes home. Does he put anything back into the game, doubt it.

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby Iranu

mick745 wrote:The lack of british youngsters is killing the sport in this country. As others have alluded it is the lack of stories, the "lovable" characters just arent there. Add to that the lack of youngsters breaking through (which is a story in itself) you can see where Judd is coming from.

It is difficult if nearly all the top players arent that interesting as the turnover of characters just isnt rapid enough.

If you last tuned in ten years ago you will still see many of the same faces, Selby, Robertson, Higgins, O'Sullivan, Murphy, etc. now.

When a new player does make a bit of a breakthrough like Wilson they just arent that interesting as people.

We are snooker junkies not casual fans. A player winning the world championship having won it 5 or 6 times previously and is who is now in their 40s is not that much of a deal to the wider public.

As a result the media arent interested except maybe once a year when the world champs is on.

I get strange looks from work colleagues when i say i am attending events usually they say "i used to watch it" but i doubt many have in a long while.

Again this just isn’t true. For every Kyren there’s a Mark Allen.

Media interest is far more of a factor. How can players show their personalities without any media coverage?

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby mantorok

With slick marketing, brand and sound production you can make anyone a character, or at least appear so, I've seen it many times. They just aren't exposing them enough.

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby Iranu

SnookerFan wrote:Mark Allen?

Loveable character?

Not loveable but he’s definitely an interesting character.

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby Running side

Iranu wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:Mark Allen?

Loveable character?

Not loveable but he’s definitely an interesting character.

Mark showed character when Ronnie had a dig recently no backing down, wondering how many players would have backed themselves.

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby SnookerFan

Running side wrote:
Iranu wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:Mark Allen?

Loveable character?

Not loveable but he’s definitely an interesting character.

Mark showed character when Ronnie had a dig recently no backing down, wondering how many players would have backed themselves.


Battle Of The Bellends.

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby Jester82

Iranu wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:
Jester82 wrote:Young folks do not have the attention span for Snooker. With Darts you can drink yourself to death and behave obnoxiously, while Snooker is more gentle and worldly. To some it might seem almost dull.
You don't see fighting like you do in the football stadium, flip a birdie and what not. And there is no real controversy in Snooker beyond sb. wearing his bow tie incorrectly. It does not make any headlines. And the players who participate aren't any interesting characters when you walk around looking like a penguin.


It's true - smart phones / the internet have killed attention spans.

I think this is bullocks, personally. It’s not that attention spans are shorter, it’s that there are a million more things competing for that attention.

The lack of characters is also nonsense. 80s nostalgia vastly overestimates how much players back then showed personality - we only see the highlights now. The winks, the jokes. You could easily put together similar highlight reels from any decade since.

Check out an interview from Ronnie, MJW, Gilbert, even the likes of Lisowski and you’ll see there are loads of characters. Follow their Twitters and you’ll see it even more.

buck, Yan Bingtao speaks limited English but when asked what he’d buy with his Masters winnings his reply was a Louis Vuitton handbag for his girlfriend. A funny response from a guy who hasn’t even mastered the language.


No, they don't have the attention span. They try to introduce digital learning in schools although studies have revealed the systematic disadvantage compared to conventional learning.
Smartphones make you dependent, addictive and prove to be killers of meaningful relationships with fellow human beings. Made to connect us with each other they have made us more lonely. So have facebook and twitter.

I do not engage in any nostaliga as to the people around the snooker tables back then, all I can say is that the Davis lot wouldn't have attracted me to the sport either in terms of personality. Alex Higgins ok, he was the opposite, a bum without manners, funny at times, embarassing at others, yet a significant and exciting player. He might be the only 'badass' type in the Snooker World that ever existed.
Besides, we don't know much about the players today.
And Snooker is not an easy game like football, even bad players can do well in football, but Snooker doesn't allow for errors. If you don't put the balls away it is really frustrating whereas football people don't care because you don't need to score, you can just pass the ball along. Snooker is very individual and requires incredible skill to be a proper player.

@Mantorok
Security is of general importance in England, it's no wonder you have to let your trousers down before entering the darts arena.
A good chap of mine said Darts was a an excuse for excessive beer and hooch consumption.
They have already shortened the game. When Reardon was an active player, games were much longer without the drama and spectacle we had from Higgins, Willo, ROS and the lot in the late nineties and early 2000s.
The game has accelerated a lot over the time for the better I would say with the appearances of young guys like Trump or Bingtao.
The popularity of a particular sport has a lot to do with how many people practice said sport. Football has been No. 1 for decades with no second close. Cricket is conservative and complicated therefore out of question for many. Finally Snooker games need perseverance most of all, on and off the table.
Passionate lobbyists and representatives for the sport.

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby lhpirnie

mantorok wrote:With slick marketing, brand and sound production you can make anyone a character, or at least appear so, I've seen it many times. They just aren't exposing them enough.

Yes, the whole snooker industry has revolved around the top guys, around 10 players. Only they or the old players seem to get any exposure, or invited to play on the top tables. It's as if the establishment don't want any young players spoiling the party (by 'establishment' I mean WST, tournament organisers, media, commentators, and those top players themselves).

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby Running side

Surely same in every sport top players getting best conditions, facility's, money ect,that's the goal for up and coming players to achieve.

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby cupotee

Running side wrote:Surely same in every sport top players getting best conditions, facility's, money ect,that's the goal for up and coming players to achieve.


and there's an army of scouts scouring the dingy clubs up and down the country looking for new talent as well , just to elucidate it somewhat david grace lives near the northern snooker centre in leeds which i think is one of the best clubs in northern england to familiarise young players with the pro game , or chris wakelin lives near the atack club in nuneaton and the same there for aspiring players in that area , its much more to do with the initial and realistic access and affordability rather than talent , that only comes along much later with years of experience in the pro game , i've just watched a gruelling qualifier between duane jones and daniel wells , there isn't a player who's ever been born who would get through that without considerable experience on pro tables , and jack lisowski took ten years to get into the top 16 .

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby Running side

cupotee wrote:
Running side wrote:Surely same in every sport top players getting best conditions, facility's, money ect,that's the goal for up and coming players to achieve.


and there's an army of scouts scouring the dingy clubs up and down the country looking for new talent as well , just to elucidate it somewhat david grace lives near the northern snooker centre in leeds which i think is one of the best clubs in northern england to familiarise young players with the pro game , or chris wakelin lives near the atack club in nuneaton and the same there for aspiring players in that area , its much more to do with the initial and realistic access and affordability rather than talent , that only comes along much later with years of experience in the pro game , i've just watched a gruelling qualifier between duane jones and daniel wells , there isn't a player who's ever been born who would get through that without considerable experience on pro tables , and jack lisowski took ten years to get into the top 16 .

Do you think if every town in the UK had pro table facilities within 5 years we would be seeing a group similar to the class of 92.

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby cupotee

Running side wrote:
cupotee wrote:
Running side wrote:Surely same in every sport top players getting best conditions, facility's, money ect,that's the goal for up and coming players to achieve.


and there's an army of scouts scouring the dingy clubs up and down the country looking for new talent as well , just to elucidate it somewhat david grace lives near the northern snooker centre in leeds which i think is one of the best clubs in northern england to familiarise young players with the pro game , or chris wakelin lives near the atack club in nuneaton and the same there for aspiring players in that area , its much more to do with the initial and realistic access and affordability rather than talent , that only comes along much later with years of experience in the pro game , i've just watched a gruelling qualifier between duane jones and daniel wells , there isn't a player who's ever been born who would get through that without considerable experience on pro tables , and jack lisowski took ten years to get into the top 16 .

Do you think if every town in the UK had pro table facilities within 5 years we would be seeing a group similar to the class of 92.


if those new players in question had loads of access to tv quality tables to familiarise themselves with the game and to know the table and its playing characteristics like the back of their hand , first of all they would be entering a pro system which is considerably harder than those entering in 1992 , it would be really hard for example for any of them to win the uk championship in their second year but if they had the keenness and the hunger coupled with the familiarity there'd be no reason to suggest their first year for example couldn't be as good as pang junxu's .

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby cupotee

Prop wrote:Cupotee, what’s your solution?


I’d make inroads on the exclusivity and ageing problem with pro snooker by giving anyone willing to pay an entrance fee access to the tour for a set amount of time , that way safety and tactical play would gradually become less frowned upon and people would see the difficulty and real character of the pro game , the masses understanding would move on somewhat from a slightly less infantile look at the game , all the ins and outs of entrance fees and duration on the tour would of course be wst’s decision to make but i think thats the best and most realistic and possibly even failsafe way to improve the view and popularity of the game , for young and all .
i can't see any improvement from the amateur angle as i think there's too much money involved to replicate pro conditions outside of the wst , just pay directly .

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby Sickpotter

Iranu wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:
Jester82 wrote:Young folks do not have the attention span for Snooker. With Darts you can drink yourself to death and behave obnoxiously, while Snooker is more gentle and worldly. To some it might seem almost dull.
You don't see fighting like you do in the football stadium, flip a birdie and what not. And there is no real controversy in Snooker beyond sb. wearing his bow tie incorrectly. It does not make any headlines. And the players who participate aren't any interesting characters when you walk around looking like a penguin.


It's true - smart phones / the internet have killed attention spans.

I think this is bullocks, personally. It’s not that attention spans are shorter, it’s that there are a million more things competing for that attention.

.


They've done studies, average attention span has dropped significantly but more with the advent of smart phones than the internet.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/te ... 497182.cms

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby mick745

Coverage is very much stuck in the past, it is a low tech sport but commentators act as if the golden days of the sport was very much in the past.

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby Prop

cupotee wrote:
Prop wrote:Cupotee, what’s your solution?


I’d make inroads on the exclusivity and ageing problem with pro snooker by giving anyone willing to pay an entrance fee access to the tour for a set amount of time , that way safety and tactical play would gradually become less frowned upon and people would see the difficulty and real character of the pro game , the masses understanding would move on somewhat from a slightly less infantile look at the game , all the ins and outs of entrance fees and duration on the tour would of course be wst’s decision to make but i think thats the best and most realistic and possibly even failsafe way to improve the view and popularity of the game , for young and all .
i can't see any improvement from the amateur angle as i think there's too much money involved to replicate pro conditions outside of the wst , just pay directly .


How much would that fee cost? Would it become like motorsport, where it’s not necessarily talent that gets in, but money?

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby cupotee

Prop wrote:
cupotee wrote:
Prop wrote:Cupotee, what’s your solution?


I’d make inroads on the exclusivity and ageing problem with pro snooker by giving anyone willing to pay an entrance fee access to the tour for a set amount of time , that way safety and tactical play would gradually become less frowned upon and people would see the difficulty and real character of the pro game , the masses understanding would move on somewhat from a slightly less infantile look at the game , all the ins and outs of entrance fees and duration on the tour would of course be wst’s decision to make but i think thats the best and most realistic and possibly even failsafe way to improve the view and popularity of the game , for young and all .
i can't see any improvement from the amateur angle as i think there's too much money involved to replicate pro conditions outside of the wst , just pay directly .


How much would that fee cost? Would it become like motorsport, where it’s not necessarily talent that gets in, but money?


as i said the entrance fees and term duration would obviously be wst's decision , there's this illusion that talented kids from the backstreets mystically get whisked into the pro snooker world , they don't , it was always about money to a large extent and i guess for most other sports too , thats just the way it is .

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby Prop

cupotee wrote:
Prop wrote:
cupotee wrote:
Prop wrote:Cupotee, what’s your solution?


I’d make inroads on the exclusivity and ageing problem with pro snooker by giving anyone willing to pay an entrance fee access to the tour for a set amount of time , that way safety and tactical play would gradually become less frowned upon and people would see the difficulty and real character of the pro game , the masses understanding would move on somewhat from a slightly less infantile look at the game , all the ins and outs of entrance fees and duration on the tour would of course be wst’s decision to make but i think thats the best and most realistic and possibly even failsafe way to improve the view and popularity of the game , for young and all .
i can't see any improvement from the amateur angle as i think there's too much money involved to replicate pro conditions outside of the wst , just pay directly .


How much would that fee cost? Would it become like motorsport, where it’s not necessarily talent that gets in, but money?


as i said the entrance fees and term duration would obviously be wst's decision , there's this illusion that talented kids from the backstreets mystically get whisked into the pro snooker world , they don't , it was always about money to a large extent and i guess for most other sports too , thats just the way it is .


How do these young ones find themselves in a position where they’re asking mum and dad for ££££ to get on tour?

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby AlfGit

Dan-cat wrote:
Jester82 wrote:Young folks do not have the attention span for Snooker. With Darts you can drink yourself to death and behave obnoxiously, while Snooker is more gentle and worldly. To some it might seem almost dull.
You don't see fighting like you do in the football stadium, flip a birdie and what not. And there is no real controversy in Snooker beyond sb. wearing his bow tie incorrectly. It does not make any headlines. And the players who participate aren't any interesting characters when you walk around looking like a penguin.


It's true - smart phones / the internet have killed attention spans.

Nail head hit. :spot on:

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby AlfGit

Nicknames on waistcoats will bring snooker one step closer to WWE.

I thought the whole point of Power Snooker was to attract the 'younger' audience. How is that working out?
Last edited by AlfGit on 09 Apr 2021, edited 1 time in total.

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby cupotee

Prop wrote:
cupotee wrote:
Prop wrote:
cupotee wrote:
Prop wrote:Cupotee, what’s your solution?


I’d make inroads on the exclusivity and ageing problem with pro snooker by giving anyone willing to pay an entrance fee access to the tour for a set amount of time , that way safety and tactical play would gradually become less frowned upon and people would see the difficulty and real character of the pro game , the masses understanding would move on somewhat from a slightly less infantile look at the game , all the ins and outs of entrance fees and duration on the tour would of course be wst’s decision to make but i think thats the best and most realistic and possibly even failsafe way to improve the view and popularity of the game , for young and all .
i can't see any improvement from the amateur angle as i think there's too much money involved to replicate pro conditions outside of the wst , just pay directly .


How much would that fee cost? Would it become like motorsport, where it’s not necessarily talent that gets in, but money?


as i said the entrance fees and term duration would obviously be wst's decision , there's this illusion that talented kids from the backstreets mystically get whisked into the pro snooker world , they don't , it was always about money to a large extent and i guess for most other sports too , thats just the way it is .


How do these young ones find themselves in a position where they’re asking mum and dad for ££££ to get on tour?


how does kacper filipiak get to still be playing on tour when he's barely won a game in ten years , or likewise iulian boiko who's barely won a game all season , i think only one to fergal o brien that wasn't best of three's , things in life generally favour the rich or those who are privy , its just a fact , at least this way its less enclosed and less exclusive and somewhat more attainable than going to q school assuming the entrance fee isn't too inhibitive .

Re: The World Number 1 Speaks Out

Postby Prop

You’re dodging my question. I’ll reiterate.

How does a young player find themselves in the position where they believe they are worthy of the cost of entering this tour?