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Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby LDS

Now we know why Joe Davis was always so strict about allowing access to the tour in the first place. It was inevitable that the wider the net was cast the more prone to this kind of behaviour the sport would become. It's always been a serious offence and something that's an anathema to the sport, and yet people still keep doing it.

Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby Cazoo

Iranu wrote:Jason Ferguson said that lifetime bans can be legally difficult to enforce.


If that is the case and they can’t give lifetime bans for that reason, then I hope they give bans long enough so that a player can’t realistically return and still be able to compete. Something like 15-20 years.

Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby Pink Ball

Cazoo wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
Cazoo wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:I'm genuinely gutted to see Yan Bingtao so far up that list. Nobody found guilty yet, but it's clear he is facing a very serious reprimand. Best young player in the world by a country mile, in a sport nearly empty of young talent, now this.


If he’s found guilty of fixing multiple matches, then he should not be allowed to play on the tour again.

I don't agree he should get a lifetime ban, but he's definitely looking at a few years out of the game, and if he's guilty, rightly so.


So what would you say warrants a lifetime ban from the sport? As far as I’m concerned this is exactly the purpose of lifetime bans. Clearly the 12 years given to Lee didn’t set enough of an example to these players. Anyone found guilty of match fixing needs to be permanently banned from our sport and the WBPSA should come out and say that anyone who gets involved with match fixing from now on will receive the same punishment. It’s the only way forward as far as I’m concerned.

It would be very wrong for the governing body to just welcome match fixers back to sport. They’ve disrespected the game, the fans and the people who pay their wages. They have no place on the tour.

Like it or not, the precedent has been set. If some of these players are guilty, I'd imagine it's unlikely they did worse than Lee, who might as well have turned snooker into professional wrestling. If you give 12 years for that, you can't turn around and give someone who did far less more time out.

Until you make an announcement that bans are going to be tougher regardless of precedent, you can't do that.

Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby Cazoo

If players who have fixed matches do happen to return to playing, I hope there is a mass boycott from the fans. People have put time and money into watching these players, who have frankly taken the snake hiss out of the fans. I for one am not going to watch any match that involves a player who has fixed matches.

Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby Pink Ball

Cazoo wrote:If players who have fixed matches do happen to return to playing, I hope there is a mass boycott from the fans. People have put time and money into watching these players, who have frankly taken the snake hiss out of the fans. I for one am not going to watch any match that involves a player who has fixed matches.

That's grand. If some of these players have done that, purely for financial gain, I will take a very dim view of them as well. I'll probably still watch them when they return, especially if they were young when they did it, but I understand why people would not want to.

Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby Cazoo

Pink Ball wrote:
Cazoo wrote:If players who have fixed matches do happen to return to playing, I hope there is a mass boycott from the fans. People have put time and money into watching these players, who have frankly taken the snake hiss out of the fans. I for one am not going to watch any match that involves a player who has fixed matches.

That's grand. If some of these players have done that, purely for financial gain, I will take a very dim view of them as well. I'll probably still watch them when they return, especially if they were young when they did it, but I understand why people would not want to.


I respect that. I think we agree on some things and disagree on others. Let’s see how this all unfolds from here.

Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby stanley_

Put together a list of some of the previous bans. I can't see anything other than several years for any of the players found guilty of match-fixing. 2.5 years (with 3.5 suspended) seems to be a possibility for those admitting guilt and fixing multiple matches. Wenbo, Hang and Ning will presumably get huge bans (possibly along the lines of Yu Delu). Lee and Hann are difficult to compare as they were so long ago although both denied their charge which clearly ups the length of the ban.

Huge blow to snooker if Bingtao and Xintong are gone. Hard to imagine why they got involved with this. So few non-Chinese youngsters coming through as well.

1) Stephen Lee - 12 years. Seven match-fixing charges. Denied charge.
2) Yu Delu - 10 years and 9 months (reduced from 12 years after a late guilty plea). Fixed five matches. Lied to investigators, failed to cooperate with the investigation and betting on snooker when banned from doing so.
3) Quinten Hann - 8 years. Met undercover journalists and "knowingly entered in an agreement to join in an unlawful enterprise to fix results for financial gain." Denied charge. Retired and didn't attend hearing.
4) John Sutton - 6 years. Fixed a match and passed on inside information. Denied charge.
5) David John - 5 years and 7 months (reduced from 7 years for admitting charge). Fixed two matches.
6) Thanawat Thirapongpaiboon - 2.5 years (3.5 suspended). Fixed six matches.
7) Cao Yupeng - 2.5 years (8 years considered, reduced to 6 for guilty plea. 3.5 years suspended). Fixed three matches. Failed to provide material requested during the investigation.
8) Joe Jogia - 2 years. 19 bets placed on him to lose against Selt. Jogia knew the two people placing the bets. He withdrew from the match with a twisted knee. Denied charge.
9) Leo Fernandez - 1 year and 3 months. Played the first foul shot - enabled other people to profit by betting on it.
10) Jamie Jones - 1 year (reduced from 16 months for admitting charge). Cleared of match-fixing but admitted failing to report a corrupt approach.
11) John Higgins - 6 months. Not reporting an illegal approach made to him to discuss throwing frames. Cleared of match fixing.

Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby HappyCamper

The_Abbott wrote:how many will be relegated from the tour this year?


five or six.

liang wenbo, li hang, zhang jiankang, chen zifan, and chang bingyu are currently outside the provisional end of season top 64. so assuming they are suspended for the rest of the season would be relegated.

lu ning, yan bingtao, zhao xintong are inside the provisional top end of season 64. yan and zhao have enough of a buffer.

bai langning is on the first year of his card.

zhao jianbo is an amateur.

Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby The_Abbott

HappyCamper wrote:
The_Abbott wrote:how many will be relegated from the tour this year?


five or six.

liang wenbo, li hang, zhang jiankang, chen zifan, and chang bingyu are currently outside the provisional end of season top 64. so assuming they are suspended for the rest of the season would be relegated.

lu ning, yan bingtao, zhao xintong are inside the provisional top end of season 64. yan and zhao have enough of a buffer.

bai langning is on the first year of his card.

zhao jianbo is an amateur.

Thanks

Thats not too bad then although its annoying that 4 of them hold places that stops people from keeping their pro status. I would imagine the 65th to 69th placed people will feel aggrieved by missing out at the end of the season.
Maybe allow slightly more onto the tour next year to compensate these losses.

Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby SnookerEd25

SnookerFan wrote:
Iranu wrote:Jason Ferguson said that lifetime bans can be legally difficult to enforce.


What's hard about it?


Probably getting into ‘restraint of trade’ territory, and then dealing with the actual law (which is an ass) rather than just SNOOKER LAW

Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby Iranu

Cazoo wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:
Iranu wrote:Jason Ferguson said that lifetime bans can be legally difficult to enforce.


What's hard about it?


Soft criminal justice system.

Yeah bring back the death penalty

Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby Cazoo

Iranu wrote:
Cazoo wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:
Iranu wrote:Jason Ferguson said that lifetime bans can be legally difficult to enforce.


What's hard about it?


Soft criminal justice system.

Yeah bring back the death penalty


Yes.

Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby HappyCamper

SnookerFan wrote:
Iranu wrote:Jason Ferguson said that lifetime bans can be legally difficult to enforce.


What's hard about it?


they are bound by their own rules and a need to be fair and have punishments reflect the different nature of offenses and the circumstances around them. ultimately any decision can be appealed to the court for arbitration for sport (cas), and the precedent are that life time bans are rare and need a high bar to be passed ot be enforced.
Last edited by HappyCamper on 19 Jan 2023, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby HappyCamper

Cazoo wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:
Iranu wrote:Jason Ferguson said that lifetime bans can be legally difficult to enforce.


What's hard about it?


Soft criminal justice system.


it's not a criminal matter.

Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby Iranu

Cazoo wrote:Apologies for wanting to see criminals punished.

You’re forgiven.

Apologies for not wanting to see innocent people inevitably put to death.

Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby Cazoo

Iranu wrote:
Cazoo wrote:Apologies for wanting to see criminals punished.

You’re forgiven.

Apologies for not wanting to see innocent people inevitably put to death.


Who’s talking about innocent people being put to death? Death penalty is used for heinous crimes.

Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby Iranu

Cazoo wrote:
Iranu wrote:
Cazoo wrote:Apologies for wanting to see criminals punished.

You’re forgiven.

Apologies for not wanting to see innocent people inevitably put to death.


Who’s talking about innocent people being put to death? Death penalty is used for heinous crimes.

Don’t worry I’m done with this conversation now <ok>

Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby Cazoo

Iranu wrote:
Cazoo wrote:
Iranu wrote:
Cazoo wrote:Apologies for wanting to see criminals punished.

You’re forgiven.

Apologies for not wanting to see innocent people inevitably put to death.


Who’s talking about innocent people being put to death? Death penalty is used for heinous crimes.

Don’t worry I’m done with this conversation now <ok>


:shrug: