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Re: Bans

Postby Dan-cat

Dan-cat wrote:There is already a lengthy thread about this subject. I will merge them.


They are merged. Phew. Last time it tried that it messed up both of the threads.

Yan will return, he’s only 23!

Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby HappyCamper

Scooper wrote:Nothing as interesting as this.

Will the players appeal?


Unlikely. Liang clearly doesn't give a toss. And the rest pled guilty. There doesn't seem to be any obvious grounds for a reduced sentences, and engaging a lawyer for an appeal would be expensive anyway.

Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby Reg Varney

Juddernaut88 wrote:
KrazeeEyezKilla wrote:Looking at twitter "snookerbacker" is an even more insufferable blue frog than I remember.


:goodpost:


I ended up unfollowing him several years ago; enjoyed all his snooker talk and posts but it was a different matter altogether when he ventured away from that subject.

Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby gninnur karona

HappyCamper wrote:
Scooper wrote:Nothing as interesting as this.

Will the players appeal?


Unlikely. Liang clearly doesn't give a toss. And the rest pled guilty. There doesn't seem to be any obvious grounds for a reduced sentences, and engaging a lawyer for an appeal would be expensive anyway.


Whilst I fully agree with the sanctions for the most serious breaches (life bans for Liang Wenbo and Li Hang),
there appears to be inconsistency in the length of sanctions imposed against the other players. I don't understand, for example, how the independent panel arrived at a decision giving Yan Bingtao and Chen Zifan identical sentences given the discrepancy in their offences.

The independent body judged, as was their remit, based upon the WPBSA Conduct Regulations.

These include the following which is cited in the WPBSA Conduct Regulations section, on page 8 of the report:
"(10) Any attempt or agreement (or intentional appearance of the same) shall be treated for purposes of these Rules as if a breach of the relevant provision(s) had been committed, whether or not such attempt or agreement (or intentional appearance of the same) in fact resulted in such breach (Part 1, section 2, rule 2.2)."

I find this clause profoundly disturbing. It implies that match-fixing and considering fixing a match but not going through with it are equally repugnant.

In my eyes there is a clear distinction.

I suspect that this clause would not survive a challenge in the Court of Arbitration for Sport.

But I doubt there will be an appeal. The only players that may have a case for a reduced sentence (possibly Chen Zifan, Bai Langning and Chang Bingyu?) are among those who could not afford legal representation in the first place.

Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby lhpirnie

gninnur karona wrote:
HappyCamper wrote:
Scooper wrote:Nothing as interesting as this.

Will the players appeal?


Unlikely. Liang clearly doesn't give a toss. And the rest pled guilty. There doesn't seem to be any obvious grounds for a reduced sentences, and engaging a lawyer for an appeal would be expensive anyway.


Whilst I fully agree with the sanctions for the most serious breaches (life bans for Liang Wenbo and Li Hang),
there appears to be inconsistency in the length of sanctions imposed against the other players. I don't understand, for example, how the independent panel arrived at a decision giving Yan Bingtao and Chen Zifan identical sentences given the discrepancy in their offences.

The independent body judged, as was their remit, based upon the WPBSA Conduct Regulations.

These include the following which is cited in the WPBSA Conduct Regulations section, on page 8 of the report:
"(10) Any attempt or agreement (or intentional appearance of the same) shall be treated for purposes of these Rules as if a breach of the relevant provision(s) had been committed, whether or not such attempt or agreement (or intentional appearance of the same) in fact resulted in such breach (Part 1, section 2, rule 2.2)."

I find this clause profoundly disturbing. It implies that match-fixing and considering fixing a match but not going through with it are equally repugnant.

In my eyes there is a clear distinction.

I suspect that this clause would not survive a challenge in the Court of Arbitration for Sport.

But I doubt there will be an appeal. The only players that may have a case for a reduced sentence (possibly Chen Zifan, Bai Langning and Chang Bingyu?) are among those who could not afford legal representation in the first place.

Actually Yan Bingtao's case is quite similar to Chen Zifan. The one which intrigues me is Bai Langning. The match he was approached to fix was played just a couple of days after he arrived back in the UK. He'd had a terrible journey (3 flights), and his luggage including cue had been lost in transit. There were always likely to be 'suspicious betting patterns' on that match because people in China knew about the situation, whereas hardly anyone in the UK did, including the bookies and the commentators for the match.

In terms of the report, there are many details left out for reasons of confidentiality, including some discretionary aspect to the bans.

Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby gninnur karona

SteveJJ wrote:CBSA has banned some of the players for longer than the WPBSA, meaning that some like Yan could get back on the tour but not be able to enter any of the Chinese events for a while


Interesting that the CBSA opted to digress from certain WPBSA verdicts but not others. Wonder why.

Chang Bingyu, Zhao Jianbo and Zhao Xintong all remain free to return to the main tour in 2025-26 if they can qualify (assuming they retain hopes of a snooker career), but the increased CBSA sanction on Zhao Xintong suggests a reduction in the number of qualifying opportunities that will be available to him during the 2024-25 season.

Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby HappyCamper

yeah presumably if they are still under sanction from the cbsa even when the wpbsa bans have expired, that would prevent them from entering q school, or other amateur competitions which the national body have approval.

Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby stanley_

The BBC article says:

"Five players have received increased bans from Chinese authorities for their involvement in snooker match-fixing.

Former Masters champion Yan Bingtao, 23, and ex-UK Championship winner Zhao Xintong, 26, are among those handed harsher punishments by the Chinese Billiards and Snooker Association.

Bingtao will be prevented from returning to the World Snooker Tour for seven and a half years, despite initially receiving a five-year ban."

Is that accurate? I thought it simply meant they couldn't enter the Chinese events?

Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby HappyCamper

stanley_ wrote:The BBC article says:

"Five players have received increased bans from Chinese authorities for their involvement in snooker match-fixing.

Former Masters champion Yan Bingtao, 23, and ex-UK Championship winner Zhao Xintong, 26, are among those handed harsher punishments by the Chinese Billiards and Snooker Association.

Bingtao will be prevented from returning to the World Snooker Tour for seven and a half years, despite initially receiving a five-year ban."

Is that accurate? I thought it simply meant they couldn't enter the Chinese events?


they have to earn their tour card back to compete on the world tour first, which in practice means winning a qualifying competition. (eg) the q school entry requirements include that the entrant be "in good standing" with their national association. obviously an ongoing suspension would impact one's standing somewhat.

Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby Wildey

HappyCamper wrote:
stanley_ wrote:The BBC article says:

"Five players have received increased bans from Chinese authorities for their involvement in snooker match-fixing.

Former Masters champion Yan Bingtao, 23, and ex-UK Championship winner Zhao Xintong, 26, are among those handed harsher punishments by the Chinese Billiards and Snooker Association.

Bingtao will be prevented from returning to the World Snooker Tour for seven and a half years, despite initially receiving a five-year ban."

Is that accurate? I thought it simply meant they couldn't enter the Chinese events?


they have to earn their tour card back to compete on the world tour first, which in practice means winning a qualifying competition. (eg) the q school entry requirements include that the entrant be "in good standing" with their national association. obviously an ongoing suspension would impact one's standing somewhat.

They will also need Backing from the CBSA to obtain Visas and we all know how difficult they are to Get

Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby chengdufan

Interestingly, the World bans have not been reported in China. In fact, no word of the investigation or anything related until the CBSA bans were announced. At which point, only the CBSA bans have been mentioned.
I probably shouldn't be surprised.

Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby stanley_

HappyCamper wrote:
stanley_ wrote:The BBC article says:

"Five players have received increased bans from Chinese authorities for their involvement in snooker match-fixing.

Former Masters champion Yan Bingtao, 23, and ex-UK Championship winner Zhao Xintong, 26, are among those handed harsher punishments by the Chinese Billiards and Snooker Association.

Bingtao will be prevented from returning to the World Snooker Tour for seven and a half years, despite initially receiving a five-year ban."

Is that accurate? I thought it simply meant they couldn't enter the Chinese events?


they have to earn their tour card back to compete on the world tour first, which in practice means winning a qualifying competition. (eg) the q school entry requirements include that the entrant be "in good standing" with their national association. obviously an ongoing suspension would impact one's standing somewhat.

Fair enough, thanks. That makes sense. Seems a bit strange for them to give longer bans than the World Snooker Tour (for some but not all) but hard to know what's happened behind the scenes.

Re: Ten players banned over match-fixing allegations

Postby lhpirnie

gninnur karona wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:
Prop wrote:Just seen Phil Haigh post this up. Could be interesting.

https://x.com/tortoise/status/169475646 ... gwY8-fiTQQ


Nice... will check that out


Link to the podcast.

Overall worth a listen (but you'll no doubt notice some inaccuracies).

Yes, there are inaccuracies, and a lack of some vital details. There obviously remains a lot of important information which is confidential. But at least they did speak to Nigel Mawer and a few others.