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Can we please put our thinking caps on...

Postby Granite

Time for me to give another tough lesson to all those who call Kyren Wilson an all-time great.

PUH-LEASE!

Let's be real here, Kyren Wilson would never dominate this sport in any other era and wouldn't even be a World Champion. The stars aligned for him massively due to the usual suspects being in their 40s and near 50s.

If anyone thinks he'd be a World Champion and winning 3 ranking titles during the 90s-end of 2010s, you are being very disingenuous. If you disagree, tell me which edition of the World Championship is he taking? None.

It took Judd until 2019 to finally win one and he reached many semi-finals during the 2010s with far better performances than Wilson in 2024.

Ding would've loved to face Jak Jones in a World Final but some people aren't so lucky. He had to face peak Selby and good versions of O'Sullivan countless of times to get denied. Ding of 2016-2017 annihilates Wilson's 2024 field. Am. I. Wrong?

No need to be "respectful" here. The field is an open goal for him.

Kyren would be at best, a top 10 player in any other era. Achievements doesn't mean you are the better player in any capacity. We simply had far stronger competition.

Re: Can we please put our thinking caps on...

Postby Prop

Sorry, but who the buck is calling Kyren Wilson an all time great? Can you cite any references? Or are you making it up?

Re: Can we please put our thinking caps on...

Postby D4P

Holden Chinaski wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:Kyren's having a fantastic season as World Champion.

Not sure that justifies this thread.

Put your thinking cap on ffs! :wild:


Please!

Re: Can we please put our thinking caps on...

Postby SnookerFan

I remember a few years back, the BBC were hyping Kyren up as some awesome force because he won the Paul Hunter Classic and the Six-Reds World Championship.

Kyren's a top player, and great guy, but let's be real. Most people on here would've known that was just typical BBC hyperbole. I don't think anybody is saying that Kyren's achievements to date rank up with Ronnie or Hendry's. So, I don't really know where Granite is getting that from.

I do think that after being one to get to a final often, but then lose heavily, winning The Crucible has given Kyren a lot of confidence. He has turned that confidence into tournament winning form this season. And, I mean, good for him. I don't know why we'd get all pissy about that. It's not Kyren's fault the draw he had at The Crucible, is it? You beat what's put in front of you, which is who has been playing well in that tournament. You don't strip somebody of their World Title because they didn't play Ronnie, Trump or Selby.

Re: Can we please put our thinking caps on...

Postby McManusFan

I think most people are on the same page that he isn't quite there yet. But it's interesting to think what it would take for him to become one. I think if he wins the worlds this year, he's definitely in, but otherwise he needs to keep this good season running.

Re: Can we please put our thinking caps on...

Postby SnookerEd25

Holden Chinaski wrote:
Cloud Strife wrote:Kyren Wilson is not dominating anything. He’s having a good season. Nothing more, nothing less.

I heard he's dominating your mum.



Dominicing

Re: Can we please put our thinking caps on...

Postby Holden Chinaski

SnookerEd25 wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:
Cloud Strife wrote:Kyren Wilson is not dominating anything. He’s having a good season. Nothing more, nothing less.

I heard he's dominating your mum.



Dominicing

rofl

Re: Can we please put our thinking caps on...

Postby Granite

SnookerFan wrote:I remember a few years back, the BBC were hyping Kyren up as some awesome force because he won the Paul Hunter Classic and the Six-Reds World Championship.

Kyren's a top player, and great guy, but let's be real. Most people on here would've known that was just typical BBC hyperbole. I don't think anybody is saying that Kyren's achievements to date rank up with Ronnie or Hendry's. So, I don't really know where Granite is getting that from.

I do think that after being one to get to a final often, but then lose heavily, winning The Crucible has given Kyren a lot of confidence. He has turned that confidence into tournament winning form this season. And, I mean, good for him. I don't know why we'd get all pissy about that. It's not Kyren's fault the draw he had at The Crucible, is it? You beat what's put in front of you, which is who has been playing well in that tournament. You don't strip somebody of their World Title because they didn't play Ronnie, Trump or Selby.


Where did I say his achievements rank up with O'Sullivan or Hendry?

If "you beat what's in front of you" is the only thing that counts for you then you don't know this sport very well and how luck can play a big factor is players careers. Look at Matthew Stevens in the late 90s and early 2000s when he was reaching lots of Triple Crown finals but he had to face immense, arguably the toughest snooker competition ever, and came up short. He didn't have the luck of playing Jak Jones in a World Final.

His 1999 UK Championship run for example - beat O'Sullivan. beat Higgins and lost against Williams.

I don't rate Kyren any higher whatsoever than Stevens, or Ding, or Jimmy White.

Being a "good guy" doesn't stop you from lucking out big time. He doesn't even know you exist, he's not paying your bills.

Re: Can we please put our thinking caps on...

Postby SnookerFan

Granite wrote: He doesn't even know you exist, he's not paying your bills.


What in the name of buck are you talking about? rofl

We are only allowed to discuss snooker on this forum if the player we're discussing knows that we exist or pay bills for us?

<doh>

Re: Can we please put our thinking caps on...

Postby Prop

I want to see this imaginary argument stand up. Who actually believes your argument? Because you don’t, and we don’t. So that leaves precisely no bucker whatsoever, which tends to happen when you try to magic something up out of thin air. There’s no substance.

This is pretty weak material. Lazy. Assuming you’re being performative, of course. Needs a bit more work.

Re: Can we please put our thinking caps on...

Postby SnookerFan

Granite wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:I remember a few years back, the BBC were hyping Kyren up as some awesome force because he won the Paul Hunter Classic and the Six-Reds World Championship.

Kyren's a top player, and great guy, but let's be real. Most people on here would've known that was just typical BBC hyperbole. I don't think anybody is saying that Kyren's achievements to date rank up with Ronnie or Hendry's. So, I don't really know where Granite is getting that from.

I do think that after being one to get to a final often, but then lose heavily, winning The Crucible has given Kyren a lot of confidence. He has turned that confidence into tournament winning form this season. And, I mean, good for him. I don't know why we'd get all pissy about that. It's not Kyren's fault the draw he had at The Crucible, is it? You beat what's put in front of you, which is who has been playing well in that tournament. You don't strip somebody of their World Title because they didn't play Ronnie, Trump or Selby.


Where did I say his achievements rank up with O'Sullivan or Hendry?

If "you beat what's in front of you" is the only thing that counts for you then you don't know this sport very well and how luck can play a big factor is players careers. Look at Matthew Stevens in the late 90s and early 2000s when he was reaching lots of Triple Crown finals but he had to face immense, arguably the toughest snooker competition ever, and came up short. He didn't have the luck of playing Jak Jones in a World Final.

His 1999 UK Championship run for example - beat O'Sullivan. beat Higgins and lost against Williams.

I don't rate Kyren any higher whatsoever than Stevens, or Ding, or Jimmy White.

Being a "good guy" doesn't stop you from lucking out big time. He doesn't even know you exist, he's not paying your bills.


Nobody is claiming that Kyren Wilson is the GOAT though. As you've had pointed out several times. So, you're arguing against a fictional point that nobody has made.

What Kyren is doing is having a great season. Following up on his Crucible success.

Not sure why you're getting so worked up about that.

Re: Can we please put our thinking caps on...

Postby Cloud Strife

Holden Chinaski wrote:
Cloud Strife wrote:Kyren Wilson is not dominating anything. He’s having a good season. Nothing more, nothing less.

I heard he's dominating your mum.


I’m proud to say Kyren Wilson is my dad.

Re: Can we please put our thinking caps on...

Postby Holden Chinaski

Cloud Strife wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:
Cloud Strife wrote:Kyren Wilson is not dominating anything. He’s having a good season. Nothing more, nothing less.

I heard he's dominating your mum.


I’m proud to say Kyren Wilson is my dad.

But is he paying your bills? :chin: