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Re: Louis Theroux working on snooker series!

Postby SnookerFan

badtemperedcyril wrote:
SnookerEd25 wrote:Shows what I know :emb:
I googled it. They suspended tests for a period during the war and also the Suez Crisis. If you already had a licence before 1935 though you didn't need to take a test.


If only there was somebody on this site willing to explain about the war.

Re: Louis Theroux working on snooker series!

Postby Souvent

It's a mystery to me why they always go back to the "golden age" of the 80's but never seem to touch the 90's.
I mean, why is it more interesting to see Davis dominating and declining than Hendry?

Besides, there's almost nothing on how Williams and Higgins - there's enough about Ronnie already - became who they are, growing up in Ronnie's shadow of popularity and Hendry's shadow of success. That would be a much more interesting documentary than black ball final for the 1000th time.

Re: Louis Theroux working on snooker series!

Postby SnookerFan

Souvent wrote:It's a mystery to me why they always go back to the "golden age" of the 80's but never seem to touch the 90's.
I mean, why is it more interesting to see Davis dominating and declining than Hendry?

Besides, there's almost nothing on how Williams and Higgins - there's enough about Ronnie already - became who they are, growing up in Ronnie's shadow of popularity and Hendry's shadow of success. That would be a much more interesting documentary than black ball final for the 1000th time.


In the 80s, there was a big explosion of fans. We had the 18.5 million final, etc.

In the early 1990s, there were still a lot of interest in Jimmy White bungling finals, but after that snooker's popularity somewhat declined.

The amount of people who, on hearing that I like snooker tell me; "Oh, I used to watch in the '80s. Not so much any more." (Usually meaning not at all.)

It's just the fashionable decade, I guess.

Re: Louis Theroux working on snooker series!

Postby badtemperedcyril

Similarly, you could be excused into believing that snooker started in the 70’s with Pot Black. Very little is said about the early days except that Joe Davis was the first player to develop the game. There are actually many fascinating stories to be told from that era, great matches, some fine players, not just Joe but also Fred, Lindrum, Donaldson, Sidney Smith, Alec and Albert Brown, Pulman, Rea, Barrie and many more. Even right back to the really early Championships when Joe was playing Midlands professionals Tom Dennis and Fred Lawrence and veteran billiards legend Willie Smith. I have newspaper reports and photos from most of the “black and white” years. A bygone era for sure but plenty to tell.

Re: Louis Theroux working on snooker series!

Postby lhpirnie

badtemperedcyril wrote:Similarly, you could be excused into believing that snooker started in the 70’s with Pot Black. Very little is said about the early days except that Joe Davis was the first player to develop the game. There are actually many fascinating stories to be told from that era, great matches, some fine players, not just Joe but also Fred, Lindrum, Donaldson, Sidney Smith, Alec and Albert Brown, Pulman, Rea, Barrie and many more. Even right back to the really early Championships when Joe was playing Midlands professionals Tom Dennis and Fred Lawrence and veteran billiards legend Willie Smith. I have newspaper reports and photos from most of the “black and white” years. A bygone era for sure but plenty to tell.

Yes I agree, the history pre-1977 is much more interesting than since. For example, each World Championship was a unique event, staged in different venues under a variety of conditions with players scrambling to even be able to participate. There were also many other tournaments which we know very little about. OK, so there wouldn't be much footage for the TV to show, but a few of the key individuals are still alive to be interviewed (Rex Williams, Ray Reardon, Clive Everton).

Re: Louis Theroux working on snooker series!

Postby lhpirnie

KrazeeEyezKilla wrote:I don't there's been anything as in dept about that era before. It's usually just a nostalgia fest. I don't mind it and find it less tedious than the "in ten years time half the top 16 will be Chinese" talk that you would get in any documentary about modern Snooker.

Yes, it's just comfortable nostalgia, pandering to the BBC snooker audience demographic. In fact, I would be a prime target - I was learning snooker in the 1980's and remember all those matches vividly. But I'm just sick of it now, oversaturation.


Unfortunately there's a total lack of vision and imagination regarding the future. It doesn't just have to be "half of the top-16 will be Chinese".

They could talk about how cue technology would give players more power, accuracy and range. They could talk about table and cloth technology making the conditions more reliable (a massive problem in the current game). They could talk about new coaching techniques, perhaps data-driven, to solidify cue-action and alignment. They could talk about new psychological training methods to make players tougher under pressure. They could talk about how the tour structure could be reformed to make snooker a more global sport. They could talk about different ways to broadcast snooker, e.g. 3D, interactive media. They could talk about gadgets to help referees (replacing balls, touching balls, free ball, etc.). They could talk about different tournament structures, ranking systems, academies, professional contracts, ...

But no, they've plumped for a nice 1980's retrospective. Again.

Re: Louis Theroux working on snooker series!

Postby SnookerFan

lhpirnie wrote:They could talk about how cue technology would give players more power, accuracy and range. They could talk about table and cloth technology making the conditions more reliable (a massive problem in the current game). They could talk about new coaching techniques, perhaps data-driven, to solidify cue-action and alignment. They could talk about new psychological training methods to make players tougher under pressure. They could talk about how the tour structure could be reformed to make snooker a more global sport. They could talk about different ways to broadcast snooker, e.g. 3D, interactive media. They could talk about gadgets to help referees (replacing balls, touching balls, free ball, etc.). They could talk about different tournament structures, ranking systems, academies, professional contracts, ...


Unfortunately, that would be considered too niche.

I'm sure there is an interest in specifics such as these from people who post on internet forums, but unfortunately that only makes up a tiny minority of fans watching. 95,96,97,98% of people watching probably don't list snooker as their favourite sport. Which is why the BBC, the biggest broadcaster in the UK, doesn't aim it's content at that type of fan.

It's easy to forget that we're in a minority sometimes.

Re: Louis Theroux working on snooker series!

Postby Prop

Lewis, great post. I’d love to see all of that kind of thing. Proper technical analysis. I’d really dig the nerdy stuff; let’s be honest, on Snooker Island us nerds make up a much larger proportion of the demographic than we would the target audience of a mainstream broadcast. And there’s the problem, as SF says.

But it was really refreshing to hear Anthony Hamilton essentially talking for us nerds in that recent podcast. He knows that while we’re small in numbers there is still demand for a less diluted presentation of the sport. I hope ES do get him involved, as and when he decides to put his cue away.

Re: Louis Theroux working on snooker series!

Postby cupotee

Dan-cat wrote:I don't think table conditions are a massive problem in the modern game.


Ok i dont say this in jest but have you posted before on here about playing at the hurricane club in kings cross , just to satisfy your curiosity or to tick a box in your life experience why don’t you try your hand at the q school , you don’t have to be good enough or worry about your standard just try to bluff your way around and feel things for the experience , then when you realise afterwards there’s hardly anywhere in britain for youths to access tables respectably replicating those conditions it isn’t hard to see why there’s much more young chinese than brits coming through and you might rethink that table conditions aren’t a problem in the modern game , how can it not be a problem when there virtually aren’t any anywhere .

Re: Louis Theroux working on snooker series!

Postby LDS

SnookerFan wrote:
lhpirnie wrote:They could talk about how cue technology would give players more power, accuracy and range. They could talk about table and cloth technology making the conditions more reliable (a massive problem in the current game). They could talk about new coaching techniques, perhaps data-driven, to solidify cue-action and alignment. They could talk about new psychological training methods to make players tougher under pressure. They could talk about how the tour structure could be reformed to make snooker a more global sport. They could talk about different ways to broadcast snooker, e.g. 3D, interactive media. They could talk about gadgets to help referees (replacing balls, touching balls, free ball, etc.). They could talk about different tournament structures, ranking systems, academies, professional contracts, ...


Unfortunately, that would be considered too niche.

I'm sure there is an interest in specifics such as these from people who post on internet forums, but unfortunately that only makes up a tiny minority of fans watching. 95,96,97,98% of people watching probably don't list snooker as their favourite sport. Which is why the BBC, the biggest broadcaster in the UK, doesn't aim it's content at that type of fan.

It's easy to forget that we're in a minority sometimes.


I'm going to have to pick you up on this bit right 'ere, 'cos the good ol' BBC is precisely the only network in the world that is quite free to and encouraged to make exactly the kind of niche documentaries that are primarily designed to appeal to very specific and niche audiences.

They have several established series that do exactly this and are very popular within their niche, such as Horizon, Arena, and pretty much anything you watch on BBC4.

You're merely perpetuating the myth that governs extremely commercial networks that assume niche=low viewing figures, a self-perpetuating loop that races to the bottom of the cultural pit.

Instead of trying something out and potentially garnering more interest from a niche than one would expect by making an interesting documentary that doesn't insult people's intelligence and offers genuine points of interest.

"This kind of programming is only possible due to the unique way the BBC is funded".

Re: Louis Theroux working on snooker series!

Postby Dragonfly

Perhaps it's best not to overthink this. I'm a longtime snooker fan, but while I acknowledge that some people are interested in the technicalities of the sport etc, most people just like to know about the players. I include myself in that.

In the 80s snooker was hugely popular and the players were household names. I'm sure lots of people would enjoy a tv programme about that era of snooker. Even if it has been done before.

Louis is a wonderful presenter and always makes interesting and thought provoking documentaries. I am looking forward to seeing this.

Re: Louis Theroux working on snooker series!

Postby Dan-cat

cupotee wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:I don't think table conditions are a massive problem in the modern game.


Ok i dont say this in jest but have you posted before on here about playing at the hurricane club in kings cross , just to satisfy your curiosity or to tick a box in your life experience why don’t you try your hand at the q school , you don’t have to be good enough or worry about your standard just try to bluff your way around and feel things for the experience , then when you realise afterwards there’s hardly anywhere in britain for youths to access tables respectably replicating those conditions it isn’t hard to see why there’s much more young chinese than brits coming through and you might rethink that table conditions aren’t a problem in the modern game , how can it not be a problem when there virtually aren’t any anywhere .


He was talking about the conditions at pro tournaments wasn't he?

Re: Louis Theroux working on snooker series!

Postby cupotee

Dan-cat wrote:
cupotee wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:I don't think table conditions are a massive problem in the modern game.


Ok i dont say this in jest but have you posted before on here about playing at the hurricane club in kings cross , just to satisfy your curiosity or to tick a box in your life experience why don’t you try your hand at the q school , you don’t have to be good enough or worry about your standard just try to bluff your way around and feel things for the experience , then when you realise afterwards there’s hardly anywhere in britain for youths to access tables respectably replicating those conditions it isn’t hard to see why there’s much more young chinese than brits coming through and you might rethink that table conditions aren’t a problem in the modern game , how can it not be a problem when there virtually aren’t any anywhere .


He was talking about the conditions at pro tournaments wasn't he?


yes and the q school itself is precisely the same conditions as pro tournaments , its a wst sanctioned event why wouldn't it be , only minute difference in a televised tournament is the featured tv table where it might be a little faster .

Re: Louis Theroux working on snooker series!

Postby SnookerFan

LDS wrote:I'm going to have to pick you up on this bit right 'ere, 'cos the good ol' BBC is precisely the only network in the world that is quite free to and encouraged to make exactly the kind of niche documentaries that are primarily designed to appeal to very specific and niche audiences.

They have several established series that do exactly this and are very popular within their niche, such as Horizon, Arena, and pretty much anything you watch on BBC4.

You're merely perpetuating the myth that governs extremely commercial networks that assume niche=low viewing figures, a self-perpetuating loop that races to the bottom of the cultural pit.

Instead of trying something out and potentially garnering more interest from a niche than one would expect by making an interesting documentary that doesn't insult people's intelligence and offers genuine points of interest.

"This kind of programming is only possible due to the unique way the BBC is funded".


You raise a fair point that the BBC has an ability to create niche programming more than commercial channels. And in a way, should be encouraged to do so as much as possible, being that everybody who owns a TV in the UK has to pay the license fee, by law.

Don't expect it to ever happen though. Snooker is just not high enough on the BBC's list of priorities for them to do anything other than pander to the masses with it.

Re: Louis Theroux working on snooker series!

Postby SnookerFan

Dragonfly wrote:Perhaps it's best not to overthink this. I'm a longtime snooker fan, but while I acknowledge that some people are interested in the technicalities of the sport etc, most people just like to know about the players. I include myself in that.

In the 80s snooker was hugely popular and the players were household names. I'm sure lots of people would enjoy a tv programme about that era of snooker. Even if it has been done before.

Louis is a wonderful presenter and always makes interesting and thought provoking documentaries. I am looking forward to seeing this.


I heard he weren't doing the presenting. He was just doing behind the camera stuff.

Re: Louis Theroux working on snooker series!

Postby Dan-cat

cupotee wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:
cupotee wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:I don't think table conditions are a massive problem in the modern game.


Ok i dont say this in jest but have you posted before on here about playing at the hurricane club in kings cross , just to satisfy your curiosity or to tick a box in your life experience why don’t you try your hand at the q school , you don’t have to be good enough or worry about your standard just try to bluff your way around and feel things for the experience , then when you realise afterwards there’s hardly anywhere in britain for youths to access tables respectably replicating those conditions it isn’t hard to see why there’s much more young chinese than brits coming through and you might rethink that table conditions aren’t a problem in the modern game , how can it not be a problem when there virtually aren’t any anywhere .


He was talking about the conditions at pro tournaments wasn't he?


yes and the q school itself is precisely the same conditions as pro tournaments , its a wst sanctioned event why wouldn't it be , only minute difference in a televised tournament is the featured tv table where it might be a little faster .



The point I'm making is that I don't think the table conditions in pro events is a major issue.

Your linking it to the amateur game is a different point, equally valid though and an interesting one. At the Hurricane rooms there is one match table with really tight pockets (which I try to avoid!) It's not a Star though.

Re: Louis Theroux working on snooker series!

Postby SnookerFan

cupotee wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:
cupotee wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:I don't think table conditions are a massive problem in the modern game.


Ok i dont say this in jest but have you posted before on here about playing at the hurricane club in kings cross , just to satisfy your curiosity or to tick a box in your life experience why don’t you try your hand at the q school , you don’t have to be good enough or worry about your standard just try to bluff your way around and feel things for the experience , then when you realise afterwards there’s hardly anywhere in britain for youths to access tables respectably replicating those conditions it isn’t hard to see why there’s much more young chinese than brits coming through and you might rethink that table conditions aren’t a problem in the modern game , how can it not be a problem when there virtually aren’t any anywhere .


He was talking about the conditions at pro tournaments wasn't he?


yes and the q school itself is precisely the same conditions as pro tournaments , its a wst sanctioned event why wouldn't it be , only minute difference in a televised tournament is the featured tv table where it might be a little faster .


I don't think Dan-Cat is saying that the tables are easy or that he could compete with the pros on them.

Re: Louis Theroux working on snooker series!

Postby Dragonfly

SnookerFan wrote:
Dragonfly wrote:Perhaps it's best not to overthink this. I'm a longtime snooker fan, but while I acknowledge that some people are interested in the technicalities of the sport etc, most people just like to know about the players. I include myself in that.

In the 80s snooker was hugely popular and the players were household names. I'm sure lots of people would enjoy a tv programme about that era of snooker. Even if it has been done before.

Louis is a wonderful presenter and always makes interesting and thought provoking documentaries. I am looking forward to seeing this.


I heard he weren't doing the presenting. He was just doing behind the camera stuff.


I didn't realise he wasn't going to present the programme. That's a shame as the documentaries he presents are such high quality. Hopefully it'll be good anyway. I'm sure his involvement in any way will mean it's worth seeing

Re: Louis Theroux working on snooker series!

Postby cupotee

SnookerFan wrote:
cupotee wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:
cupotee wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:I don't think table conditions are a massive problem in the modern game.


Ok i dont say this in jest but have you posted before on here about playing at the hurricane club in kings cross , just to satisfy your curiosity or to tick a box in your life experience why don’t you try your hand at the q school , you don’t have to be good enough or worry about your standard just try to bluff your way around and feel things for the experience , then when you realise afterwards there’s hardly anywhere in britain for youths to access tables respectably replicating those conditions it isn’t hard to see why there’s much more young chinese than brits coming through and you might rethink that table conditions aren’t a problem in the modern game , how can it not be a problem when there virtually aren’t any anywhere .


He was talking about the conditions at pro tournaments wasn't he?


yes and the q school itself is precisely the same conditions as pro tournaments , its a wst sanctioned event why wouldn't it be , only minute difference in a televised tournament is the featured tv table where it might be a little faster .


I don't think Dan-Cat is saying that the tables are easy or that he could compete with the pros on them.


i was just talking about the scarcity of tables anywhere respectably replicating pro conditions , thats as if surely not more of a problem in the general world of snooker , pro or amateur , maybe the game would be seen as less niche if more pro tables were available and viewers would stop seeing safety as boring , if mick the builder on his once a week trip to his local club was confronted with pro pockets and the difficulty of escaping snookers he might stop complaining that o sullivan is the only character in snooker , do these clubs with bucket pockets actually do the game any good at all ?

Re: Louis Theroux working on snooker series!

Postby badtemperedcyril

lhpirnie wrote:
badtemperedcyril wrote:Similarly, you could be excused into believing that snooker started in the 70’s with Pot Black. Very little is said about the early days except that Joe Davis was the first player to develop the game. There are actually many fascinating stories to be told from that era, great matches, some fine players, not just Joe but also Fred, Lindrum, Donaldson, Sidney Smith, Alec and Albert Brown, Pulman, Rea, Barrie and many more. Even right back to the really early Championships when Joe was playing Midlands professionals Tom Dennis and Fred Lawrence and veteran billiards legend Willie Smith. I have newspaper reports and photos from most of the “black and white” years. A bygone era for sure but plenty to tell.

Yes I agree, the history pre-1977 is much more interesting than since. For example, each World Championship was a unique event, staged in different venues under a variety of conditions with players scrambling to even be able to participate. There were also many other tournaments which we know very little about. OK, so there wouldn't be much footage for the TV to show, but a few of the key individuals are still alive to be interviewed (Rex Williams, Ray Reardon, Clive Everton).

There's also what you might call the "lost generation" of great players who should have been winning world championships in the 50's and 60's but alas there were none to play in.

Re: Louis Theroux working on snooker series!

Postby Dan-cat

Dragonfly wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:
Dragonfly wrote:Perhaps it's best not to overthink this. I'm a longtime snooker fan, but while I acknowledge that some people are interested in the technicalities of the sport etc, most people just like to know about the players. I include myself in that.

In the 80s snooker was hugely popular and the players were household names. I'm sure lots of people would enjoy a tv programme about that era of snooker. Even if it has been done before.

Louis is a wonderful presenter and always makes interesting and thought provoking documentaries. I am looking forward to seeing this.


I heard he weren't doing the presenting. He was just doing behind the camera stuff.


I didn't realise he wasn't going to present the programme. That's a shame as the documentaries he presents are such high quality. Hopefully it'll be good anyway. I'm sure his involvement in any way will mean it's worth seeing


He is presenting.

Re: Louis Theroux working on snooker series!

Postby Johnny Bravo

LDS wrote:I don't like the term Golden Age. I think it unfairly pigeon holes a specific era as somehow always and forever 'better' than any other era.

It's a problem that afflicts loads of different hobbies and sports whereby fans of one specific era seem determined to encapsulate 'their' era as 'the bestest ever', usually with implications that other eras aren't as good and often, in reality, refers to a short period of over-expansion and zeitgeist rather than any particular pinnacle of quality or achievement.

A period in time when it was simply 'selling the most to widest market', which, in reality, is often more a sign of an approaching bust rather than a reason to celebrate a boom. A period of uncontrollable cashing-in and casualisation that offers nothing to long-term stability and expectation management.

"The Golden Age of movies was the black and white era" - no. It was the time when most of the people went to the cinema, nothing more.

"The Golden Age of comics was the 1940s and early 1950s" - no. it was the time when most of the kids bought a comic every week/month.

I don't mind pigeon holing an era, but this obsession with precious metal hierarchy and it's supposed implication to quality I find unbearable.

Just something like "the television era" or "the rebirth era" or "the snooker renaissance era" would be so much more apt and so much less image-forcing.

:goodpost:

Re: Louis Theroux working on snooker series!

Postby Dan-cat

Iranu wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:He is presenting.

He’s not: https://twitter.com/louistheroux/status ... 14596?s=21

It’s possible he’s narrating but it seems like it’s just being produced by his company. I can’t think of anything else he’s narrated offscreen.


I'm pretty sure I read something about him presenting it but I could be wrong. We will see!

Re: Louis Theroux working on snooker series!

Postby SnookerFan

Dan-cat wrote:
Iranu wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:He is presenting.

He’s not: https://twitter.com/louistheroux/status ... 14596?s=21

It’s possible he’s narrating but it seems like it’s just being produced by his company. I can’t think of anything else he’s narrated offscreen.


I'm pretty sure I read something about him presenting it but I could be wrong. We will see!


I could be wrong.