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The Best Player Born That Year

Postby LDS

With the World Championship but moments away, the qualifiers already underway, I thought I'd hype myself up by looking into the subject of who was the best snooker player born each year.

Performance in the World Championships is obviously a big factor here for any player's inclusion above any other players, but it's not always the deciding factor.

In a very few cases I couldn't decide between two very similarly careered players and leave the final deciding vote to your own imagination.

There are a few years still unallocated with a player, if you know one then please tell me about them and I'll add them.

Likewise, if you strongly disagree with a choice and think you know a better choice for that year, present your case and I'll listen.

Some years are stuffed with choices while others often present only one even remotely relevant choice.

Interestingly, six female snooker players make the list!

Here goes:

19th Century
1856 - Sir Neville Francis Fitzgerald Chamberlain
1873 - Tom Reece
1878 - Albert Cope
1882 - Tom Dennis
1886 - Willie Smith
1887 - Fred Lawrence
1894 - Tom Newman
1895 - Clark McConachy

1900s
1900 - Stanley Newman
1901 - Joe Davis
1902 - Alec Mann
1904 - Kelsall Prince
1907 - Walter Donaldson
1908 - Sidney Smith / Alec Brown
1909 - Norman Squire

1910s
1910 - Joyce Gardner
1911 - Albert Brown
1912 - Horace Lindrum
1913 - Fred Davis
1917 - Jack Karnehm

1920s
1920 - Harry Stokes
1921 - Jackie Rea
1922 - Warren Simpson
1923 - John Pulman
1924 - John Barrie
1927 - John Dunning
1928 - Jack Fitzmaurice
1929 - Eddie Charlton

1930s
1930 - Vera Selby
1931 - Jimmy Van Rensberg
1932 - Ray Reardon
1933 - Rex Williams
1934 - Cliff Wilson
1935 - John Spencer
1936 - Ray Edmonds
1937 - Johnathon Barron
1938 - Roy Andrewrtha
1939 - Geoff Foulds

1940s
1940 - Perrie Mans
1941 - Graham Miles
1942 - Doug Mountjoy
1943 - David Taylor
1944 - John Bear
1945 - Paul Mifsud
1946 - John Virgo
1947 - Terry Griffiths
1948 - Cliff Thorburn
1949 - Alex Higgins

1950s
1950 - Bernie Mikklesen
1951 - Patsy Fagan
1952 - Joe Johnson
1953 - John Campbell
1954 - Willie Thorne
1955 - Tony Knowels
1956 - Steve Newbury
1957 - Steve Davis
1958 - Kirk Stevens
1959 - Tony Meo

1960s
1960 - Alain Robidoux
1961 - Steve James
1962 - Jimmy White
1963 - Neal Foulds
1964 - John Parrott
1965 - Nigel Bond
1966 - Darren Morgan
1967 - Euan Henderson
1968 - Alison Fisher / Martin Clark / Mark Johnstone-Allen
1969 - Steven Hendry

1970s
1970 - Peter Ebdon
1971 - Alan McManus
1972 - Fergal O'Brien
1973 - Chris Small
1974 - Stephen Lee
1975 - Ronnie O'Sullivan / John Higgins
1976 - Stuart Bingham
1977 - Graeme Dott / Matthew Stevens
1978 - Paul Hunter
1979 - Ali Carter

1980s
1980 - Ryan Day
1981 - Stephen Maguire
1982 - Neil Robertson
1983 - Mark Selby
1984 - Allen Taylor
1985 - Reanne Evans / Thepchaiya Un-Nooh / Matthew Selt
1986 - Mark Allen
1987 - Ding Junhui
1988 - Jamie Jones
1989 - Judd Trump

1990s (open to rapid change, obviously)
1990 - Cao Yupeng / Ng On-yee
1991 - Kyren Wilson
1992 - Noppon Saengkham
1993 - Duane Jones
1994 - Scott Donaldson
1995 - Luca Brecell
1996 - Alexander Ursenbacher
1997 - Lyu Haotian
1998 - Zhou Yuelong
1999 - Nutcharut Wongharuthai

2000s (open to rapid change, obviously)
2000 - Yan Bingtao
2001 - Jackson Page
2002 - Aaron Hill
2003 - Zhao Jianbo
2004 - Gao Yang
2005 - Iulian Boiko

Years currently need filling: 1903, 1905, 1906, 1914, 1915, 1916, 1918, 1919, 1925, 1926 and most of the 1800s, obviously.
Last edited by LDS on 07 Apr 2021, edited 6 times in total.

Re: The Best Player Born That Year

Postby The_Abbott

SnookerFan wrote:1975 was a belter of a year, to be fair.

yeah I was born that year. Thanks for noticing <ok>

Re: The Best Player Born That Year

Postby McManusFan

1856 - Neville Chamberlain?

He invented the game, so he must have been the best in the world at some point, even if it was just before he taught anyone it!

Re: The Best Player Born That Year

Postby chengdufan

All right then.

1929 Eddie Charlton or Pat Houlihan. I think it's close. Too hard to call in fact. Eddie was certainly better in the 80s, but before that, who knows? Houlihan could have a case.

1936 I think Mark Wildman was better than Ray Edmonds. Compare their rankings from 1983 to 1987, Wildman firs 24 v 34; 21 v 50; 25 v 51; 43 v 46; 47 v 59

1937 I've never heard of Jonathan Barron. Could you state his case? Presumably he did well in some early championships? Are you sure he was better than Eddie Sinclair, who was as high as 26th in the world in 1983?

1945 Are you sure Paul Mifsud was born in 45 and not 46? Anyway, Colin Roscoe born in 45 was better.

1959 Mike Hallett v Tony Meo is incredibly close. I think Hallett edges it.

1968 Martin Clark edges Mark Johnston-Allen. Clark had 13 years as a pro, including 4 in the top 16 one season at 17 and another at 18. Johnston-Allen had 9 years as a pro, peaking at 31.

1972 You're right, Fergal O'Brien is the correct choice, just... Mark Davis will be disappointed

1973 Ooh, I'd have Andy Hicks, but it's probably just nostalgia from remembering his Crucible semi-final run. Small probably edges it, yes.

1979 It's close between Hawkins and Carter. Beast mode Barry wins it though. Not to mention Carter is very unlikeable.

1988 I think you'll find Jamie Jones is better than Michael Georgiou. I'm surprised that's even a debate.

1993 Sam Craigie is better than Duane Jones. He's certainly more talented, and has had a season inside the top 64.

1994 Scott Donaldson is correct, yes. There are a few in the mix to overtake him.

1997 Yes, it's close between Lyu Haotian and Zhao Xintong. You're probably right about it being Lyu, but I think this time next year it will clearly be Zhao.

1999 I would love for it to be Nutcharat Wongharuthai, but it is clearly Brian Ochoiski.

2001 Jackson Page

Re: The Best Player Born That Year

Postby LDS

chengdufan wrote:All right then.

1929 Eddie Charlton or Pat Houlihan. I think it's close. Too hard to call in fact. Eddie was certainly better in the 80s, but before that, who knows? Houlihan could have a case.

1936 I think Mark Wildman was better than Ray Edmonds. Compare their rankings from 1983 to 1987, Wildman firs 24 v 34; 21 v 50; 25 v 51; 43 v 46; 47 v 59

1937 I've never heard of Jonathan Barron. Could you state his case? Presumably he did well in some early championships? Are you sure he was better than Eddie Sinclair, who was as high as 26th in the world in 1983?

1945 Are you sure Paul Mifsud was born in 45 and not 46? Anyway, Colin Roscoe born in 45 was better.

1959 Mike Hallett v Tony Meo is incredibly close. I think Hallett edges it.

1968 Martin Clark edges Mark Johnston-Allen. Clark had 13 years as a pro, including 4 in the top 16 one season at 17 and another at 18. Johnston-Allen had 9 years as a pro, peaking at 31.

1972 You're right, Fergal O'Brien is the correct choice, just... Mark Davis will be disappointed

1973 Ooh, I'd have Andy Hicks, but it's probably just nostalgia from remembering his Crucible semi-final run. Small probably edges it, yes.

1979 It's close between Hawkins and Carter. Beast mode Barry wins it though. Not to mention Carter is very unlikeable.

1988 I think you'll find Jamie Jones is better than Michael Georgiou. I'm surprised that's even a debate.

1993 Sam Craigie is better than Duane Jones. He's certainly more talented, and has had a season inside the top 64.

1994 Scott Donaldson is correct, yes. There are a few in the mix to overtake him.

1997 Yes, it's close between Lyu Haotian and Zhao Xintong. You're probably right about it being Lyu, but I think this time next year it will clearly be Zhao.

1999 I would love for it to be Nutcharat Wongharuthai, but it is clearly Brian Ochoiski.

2001 Jackson Page


Excellent, I shall look into these presently. For a few of the more recent ones they simply didn't appear in my search results. For some of your challenges, I shall recheck and offer my opinion.

Re: The Best Player Born That Year

Postby LDS

So this is my reasoning regarding your post @Chen. Some I agree with you about, but others I don't and some I'll put my case forward for you to counter.

1929 - Eddie Charlton vs Pat Houlihan. Well Eddie has the results over a long period of time. He may well have been less popular than Pat, but his results are there for all to see. Pat is more akin to a mythically great player, in that, sure he was a good player and word of mouth is strong for him, but he just never appears much in any results. A sort of Johnny Bravo that is actually for real. Regarding the unfairness of Joe not allowing him on tour for 'reasons', well Pat was indeed imprisoned for criminality at one point, so maybe Joe was just looking for anything to try and keep him away from a potentially corrupting influence.

1936 - I went for Ray Edmonds because he has 2 Amateur titles and 4 WSC appearances, whereas Wildman only has Junior titles and 1 WSC appearance. They are both very similar, but I think Edmond's achievements slightly out-weigh Wildman's.

1937 - Similarly here, Johnathon Barron was another dominator of the amateur scene (at a time when the amateur game was arguably as strong as the professional game), and Barron won 4 major amateur events whereas Sinclair only has 2 Scottish cups (when the scot's cup was limited to scots only).

1945 - You are right, Mifsud's birthdate could be 45 or 46, so I put him in 45 because there was no-one else. Colin Roscoe is a good should to fill that spot, however, I still think Mifsud takes it, because Mifsud has two world amateur titles whereas Roscoe only has one Welsh amateur title.

1959 - Meo vs Hallett is a close one for sure. My reasoning was that Meo did it all at a younger age, and he has the more prestigious title, the British Open versus Hallett's Hong Kong Open. Meo was also a finalist at the Classic, another big event. Meo also got further at the WSC, even if Hallett has a better record at the Masters and UK.

1968 - I umm'ed and arr'ed about Mark Davis versus Mark Johnston-Allen for ages, but decided that Allen has the more prestigious record. Allen got to two ranking finals, the same event in consecutive years, whereas Davis never made it anywhere in any event beyond the QFs. Allen also has the ringer-factor that he beat Hendry 3 times and never lost to him during Hendry's peak. Quite why Allen's career was never one of longevity is a mystery, but I'd argue he achieved more in a couple of seasons than Davis did in many.

1979 - Carter versus Hawkins. Carter just has a better record at the Triple Crown events, in that he's got further in each of them and more often. Although Barry's Semi-final run in the WSCs is impressive, would he trade all of those for one more final appearance?

1988 - Jamie Jones versus Michael Georgiou is indeed a fun one. Yes, Jamie Jones is probably the better player, but Georgiou does have a ranking event title, something that potentially trumps Jones? I'm not sure about this one, but I am open to hearing how Jones' 7 more amateur titles is superior to Georgiou's 3 more amateur titles. I too actually think Jones is the better player, but it's without doubt that Georgiou actually has silverware whereas Jones doesn't.

1993 - Sam Craigie has an amateur title and a QF at the China Open, whereas Duane Jones has a 6-reds title and was a runner up of Pot Black, he also has a SF at the German Masters. Sam Craigie has a small lead in ranking position, but the difference isn't great.

1997 - yes, I too can't get away from Lyu's ranking final being the kicker for him in this spot.

1999 - There's quite a lot preventing me from choosing Brian Ochoiski over the fine lady player with the HUGE name. Brian hasn't done anything yet. He doesn't even have a wiki page. The lady on the other hand has a wiki page full of silverware and also has a higher highest break, she has a 147 to her name, unlike Brian.

2001 - I shall immediately add Jackson Page.

Re: The Best Player Born That Year

Postby Reg Varney

Was 1984 a particularly barren year for some reason?

You've got great players both before and after, yet the best for that year is Allan Taylor.

Re: The Best Player Born That Year

Postby lhpirnie

I'd say 2002 should be Chang Bingyu, and 2003 Lei Peifan is probably weaker than his compatriots Zhao Jianbo and Wu Yize, but I do like the look of Jamie Wilson, who has great potential.

Re: The Best Player Born That Year

Postby Prop

lhpirnie wrote:I'd say 2002 should be Chang Bingyu, and 2003 Lei Peifan is probably weaker than his compatriots Zhao Jianbo and Wu Yize, but I do like the look of Jamie Wilson, who has great potential.


Yeah, Wilson looks very promising. Maybe soon he can be added to the list with confidence!

Great thread btw, LDS <ok>

Re: The Best Player Born That Year

Postby AlfGit

Wow! That is an interesting list. You have clearly put a lot of work into it. <ok>

It is unfortunate for John Higgins that he was born the same year as Ronnie O'Sullivan, because Ronnie surely has to take 1975. They turned pro the same year, so they have had the same career length, and have played the same opponents under the same conditions, so their comparison is about as fair as it gets.

World Titles = Ronnie 6, John 4
UK Titles = Ronnie 7, John 3
Masters = Ronnie 7, John 2
Rankers = Ronnie 37, John 31
Maximums = Ronnie 15, John 10
Centuries Rate = Ronnie 1:10.81, John 1:15.7
Head to Head = Ronnie 38, John 31
Prize Money = Ronnie £11.8m, John £8.3m

John has more Welsh Open and British Open titles than Ronnie, but Ronnie wins in every other respect.
Last edited by AlfGit on 06 Apr 2021, edited 1 time in total.

Re: The Best Player Born That Year

Postby Reg Varney

SnookerFan wrote:1975 was a belter of a year, to be fair.


It's saying something when a three-time World champion is only the third best player born in that year!

Re: The Best Player Born That Year

Postby LDS

Reg Varney wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:1975 was a belter of a year, to be fair.


It's saying something when a three-time World champion is only the third best player born in that year!


1949 - both Alex Higgins and Dennis Taylor!

1991 is a right royal punch-up too, for some reason, Kyren, Lisowski, McGill, Michael White, I guess you could put that down to Ronnie Finally winning the World's in 2001 as a huge moment for the sport.

Re: The Best Player Born That Year

Postby SnookerEd25

LDS wrote:1937 - Similarly here, Johnathon Barron was another dominator of the amateur scene (at a time when the amateur game was arguably as strong as the professional game), and Barron won 4 major amateur events whereas Sinclair only has 2 Scottish cups (when the scot's cup was limited to scots only).


More about the man from Mevagissey here :

https://greenbaize1972.com/the-man-from-mevagissey/

Re: The Best Player Born That Year

Postby badtemperedcyril

SnookerEd25 wrote:
LDS wrote:1937 - Similarly here, Johnathon Barron was another dominator of the amateur scene (at a time when the amateur game was arguably as strong as the professional game), and Barron won 4 major amateur events whereas Sinclair only has 2 Scottish cups (when the scot's cup was limited to scots only).


More about the man from Mevagissey here :

https://greenbaize1972.com/the-man-from-mevagissey/

The professional scene was dead in the late 50’s and 60’s but the amateur game was thriving. Jonathan Barron was one of the leading players in the game in that period. He won three English Amateur titles in the early 70’s and the World Amateur. It’s pretty tragic that so few people remember him now.

Re: The Best Player Born That Year

Postby LDS

So I've looked into the lady's game to see if there's anyone there who can fill in some gaps after Reg Varney's excellent suggestion of Alison Fisher.

While we are all aware that the ladies do struggle to compete with the men, it is without doubt that a multiple winner of the Women's World Championship does have more prestige and historical worth than a nearly-man in the male game.

So what I'm going to do is add the following by replacing the following:

Alison Fisher - 1968, Seven times WWC, thereby also solving the Johnston-Allen v Mark Davis question.

Reanne Evans - 1985, Twelve times WWC, thereby solving the Selt v Thepchaiya question.

Ng On-yee - 1990, three times WWC and two times RU of the WWC, replacing Cao Yupeng

Of the other lady winners and RUs of the WWC who shan't be added to the list, many don't provide a date of birth, but those who do:

Stacy Hillyard and Karen Corr were both born in Hendry's year.
Mandy Fisher in Jimmy White's year.
Ann-Marie Farren, McManus' year.
Kelly Fisher, Hunter's year
Lisa Quick in 1975, nuff said.
Maria Catalano in Neil Robertson's year.
Emma Bonney, Bingham
Lynette Horsburgh, Stephen Lee
Agnes Davies, RU once, Harry Stokes' year.

Let me know if you like this idea.

Re: The Best Player Born That Year

Postby LDS

lhpirnie wrote:I'd say 2002 should be Chang Bingyu, and 2003 Lei Peifan is probably weaker than his compatriots Zhao Jianbo and Wu Yize, but I do like the look of Jamie Wilson, who has great potential.


For 2002, Aaron Hill has more Amateur trophies than Chang Bingyu, so, for the moment I think Hill holds that spot.

However, I think you're right about Zhao Jianbo being better than Lei Piefan, as Zhao has some amateur trophies while Piefan has none and is only a runner-up in a couple.

So I've changed 2003 to Zhao Jianbo.

Re: The Best Player Born That Year

Postby LDS

Reg Varney wrote:Was 1984 a particularly barren year for some reason?

You've got great players both before and after, yet the best for that year is Allan Taylor.


Yes, it's really weird isn't it. You have to go back to 1950 for a similarly comparable year.

Re: The Best Player Born That Year

Postby chengdufan

LDS, your title states that the list is of the best players born in each year. That's quite subjective and allows for a good debate here.

However, as the thread has developed, you've made it clear that actually you're looking for the most decorated player born in each year. That's relatively clear cut, and doesn't allow for a great deal of debate.

Ng On Yee vs Cao Yupeng is a very good example to clarify my point. I don't think anyone would argue that Ng is a better snooker player than Cao. She is of course more decorated.

I wish you'd been clearer from the start. I put quite a bit of thought into my first response.

I believe the 68 debate was regarding Martin Clark rather than Mark Davis by the way. Mark Davis was born in 72. He is worth considering alongside O'Brien, but I think O' Brien at his best was a little better than Davis.

Re: The Best Player Born That Year

Postby LDS

Sorry, yes, I meant Martin Clark, lol.

I think what is meant by best is indeed quite subjective, and I am willing to hear conjecture to any reasoning supplied by anyone.

Holding trophies is merely physical evidence that on that one day that player can be the best, and very convincing evidence to-boot.

Prestige can also be evidence of being the best, as I have just unwittingly proven, because if people struggle to even remember your name then there must be a quantifiable reason for that.

But there's also the plain fact of who would probably always win if the two players met, which is equally relevant.

Do you think female players should only get a spot if there's literally no other male candidates of almost any calibre? It's certainly a justifiable position to take. Hence why I'm asking for opinions.

Jamie Jones versus Georgiou is a good example, in that no-one else joined that convo, even though we both think JJ would probably win any matches the two players had against each other, so perhaps silverware and prestige is the most important thing for most people?

Re: The Best Player Born That Year

Postby SnookerEd25

Re ; Georgiou and Jones; I believe Jones to be the far superior player, I just didn’t want to get into THAT debate again regarding Michael’s ‘silverware’ :zzz:

Re: The Best Player Born That Year

Postby Reg Varney

When I suggested Allison Fisher it was going to be down to how folk viewed her World titles against what was happening in the men's game.

Johnstone-Allen's career best was two ranking final losses (strangely both European Opens in successive years), losing a close one to Tony Jones (that looked to be a strange tournament as someone called Brady Gollan made the semi-finals) and then getting thumped by Jimmy White.

Allison Fisher was a seven-time Women's World champion, who did ply her trade against the men, but quit the game before the age of 30 for Pool. It's all a bit presumptive to say how good she "could" have been, but I find it hard to believe that she wouldn't have continued to improve.

I would have Fisher as the best player born that year, wouldn't have Evans over Un-Nooh though.