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Ronnie may be the GOAT but Selby's the Sniper

Postby Granite

Ronnie is the GOAT but Selby's the sniper that had the GOAT in his scope, not Higgins imo

The only man to defeat Ronnie in a UK, Masters and Worlds Final and never lost a ranking event final in all 4 attempts from 2008 to 2020...that's a 12 year span.

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Re: Ronnie may be the GOAT but Selby's the Sniper

Postby Granite

Andre147 wrote:So you do acknowledge Ronnie's the GOAT? All good then, I don't mind a few losses against Selby as long as Ronnie's the GOAT. <ok>


Not just a "few" losses. These are important losses at most of the biggest stages.

Only Selby's been able to do this. As I said, Selby's the sniper who had him in his scope throughout Ronnie's career. Never missed a shot in a final when the stakes and the pressure are the highest.

Re: Ronnie may be the GOAT but Selby's the Sniper

Postby Andre147

Granite wrote:
Andre147 wrote:So you do acknowledge Ronnie's the GOAT? All good then, I don't mind a few losses against Selby as long as Ronnie's the GOAT. <ok>


Not just a "few" losses. These are important losses at most of the biggest stages.

Only Selby's been able to do this. As I said, Selby's the sniper who had him in his scope throughout Ronnie's career. Never missed a shot in a final when the stakes and the pressure are the highest.


Good for Selby.

Re: Ronnie may be the GOAT but Selby's the Sniper

Postby Iranu

Granite wrote:
Andre147 wrote:So you do acknowledge Ronnie's the GOAT? All good then, I don't mind a few losses against Selby as long as Ronnie's the GOAT. <ok>


Not just a "few" losses. These are important losses at most of the biggest stages.

Only Selby's been able to do this. As I said, Selby's the sniper who had him in his scope throughout Ronnie's career. Never missed a shot in a final when the stakes and the pressure are the highest.

Ranking final*

Re: Ronnie may be the GOAT but Selby's the Sniper

Postby Andre147

Iranu wrote:
Granite wrote:
Andre147 wrote:So you do acknowledge Ronnie's the GOAT? All good then, I don't mind a few losses against Selby as long as Ronnie's the GOAT. <ok>


Not just a "few" losses. These are important losses at most of the biggest stages.

Only Selby's been able to do this. As I said, Selby's the sniper who had him in his scope throughout Ronnie's career. Never missed a shot in a final when the stakes and the pressure are the highest.

Ranking final*


He obviously forgot 2 Masters Finals! <cool> A UK Champs quarter-final, another Masters quarter-final AND a World Champs Semi-Final in the deciding frame from 16-14 down!

Never in a ranking Final, but Selby HAS missed a shot and sucumbed to pressure too in important moments against ROS.

Re: Ronnie may be the GOAT but Selby's the Sniper

Postby mick745

And i think it is the difference in their styles of play that makes their matches so intriguing.

Selby has had to work out how best to win. He is hardly likely to take Ronnie on in a potting contest and win. However, Selby is tactically very sound and a great match player which in longer matches can be the difference. When Selby has a strong mind he is very hard to beat but has admitted to periods of self doubt. Ronnie has as well.

Re: Ronnie may be the GOAT but Selby's the Sniper

Postby Dragonfly

I'm not sure if O'Sullivan can win another world title. Selby certainly can though. He's capable of winning at least 2 more. So he could end up with same amount of world's as O'Sullivan.

That'd be kinda weird as O'Sullivan is by far the more talented player. But unless Trump somehow starts reaching more world finals then Selby will remain the dominant Crucible player for a few years yet.

Re: Ronnie may be the GOAT but Selby's the Sniper

Postby Andre147

Dragonfly wrote:I'm not sure if O'Sullivan can win another world title. Selby certainly can though. He's capable of winning at least 2 more. So he could end up with same amount of world's as O'Sullivan.

That'd be kinda weird as O'Sullivan is by far the more talented player. But unless Trump somehow starts reaching more world finals then Selby will remain the dominant Crucible player for a few years yet.


I think ROS can win another, but he won't demolish the opposition like in the past, if anything, it will be hard work and sheer will to win, alas 2020.

As for Trump, yes he needs to step it up. A big match at The Crucible between him and Selby would be great.

Re: Ronnie may be the GOAT but Selby's the Sniper

Postby TheRocket

Its true that Selby has won all of the 4 ranking event finals but dont forget Ronnie is still leading the H2H and also has 2 Masters final wins. He is also the only player who beat Selby in all of the TC events.

Theres no doubt though that Selby will be remembered as the player who caused him big problems, maybe even more than Higgins has done even though thats up for debate.

But its not a big deal because if you look at other individual sports there is always someone who gives you the most trouble and who plays the type of game that doesnt suit yours, even if you're the GOAT. What counts for me is that he has won more than the likes of Higgins or Selby. He is the superior/greater player.

Re: Ronnie may be the GOAT but Selby's the Sniper

Postby SnookerEd25

Juddernaut88 wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:But will Ronnie ever beat Michael Holt again?


He did last season. Will Judd Trump ever beat Shaun Murphy or Hossein Vafaei ever again?


No, he won’t beat either. You can take that to the bank.

Re: Ronnie may be the GOAT but Selby's the Sniper

Postby Juddernaut88

SnookerEd25 wrote:
Juddernaut88 wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:But will Ronnie ever beat Michael Holt again?


He did last season. Will Judd Trump ever beat Shaun Murphy or Hossein Vafaei ever again?


No, he won’t beat either. You can take that to the bank.


:sad: I just have to hope he avoids both players all of this season then.

Re: Ronnie may be the GOAT but Selby's the Sniper

Postby Granite

TheRocket wrote:Its true that Selby has won all of the 4 ranking event finals but dont forget Ronnie is still leading the H2H and also has 2 Masters final wins. He is also the only player who beat Selby in all of the TC events.

Theres no doubt though that Selby will be remembered as the player who caused him big problems, maybe even more than Higgins has done even though thats up for debate.

But its not a big deal because if you look at other individual sports there is always someone who gives you the most trouble and who plays the type of game that doesnt suit yours, even if you're the GOAT. What counts for me is that he has won more than the likes of Higgins or Selby. He is the superior/greater player.


Ronnie's better against the field but peak for peak, Selby is better. He's got the best game to deal with Ronnie. Selby's probably the only player Ronnie fears.

Have you seen the Hendry and Ronnie interview they did during COVID? Ronnie said Selby was someone that had his number.

Re: Ronnie may be the GOAT but Selby's the Sniper

Postby Prop

Granite wrote:
TheRocket wrote:Its true that Selby has won all of the 4 ranking event finals but dont forget Ronnie is still leading the H2H and also has 2 Masters final wins. He is also the only player who beat Selby in all of the TC events.

Theres no doubt though that Selby will be remembered as the player who caused him big problems, maybe even more than Higgins has done even though thats up for debate.

But its not a big deal because if you look at other individual sports there is always someone who gives you the most trouble and who plays the type of game that doesnt suit yours, even if you're the GOAT. What counts for me is that he has won more than the likes of Higgins or Selby. He is the superior/greater player.


Ronnie's better against the field but peak for peak, Selby is better. He's got the best game to deal with Ronnie. Selby's probably the only player Ronnie fears.

Have you seen the Hendry and Ronnie interview they did during COVID? Ronnie said Selby was someone that had his number.


I’m not sure ‘peak for peak’ is an accurate statement. Selby prevents Ronnie from playing his peak game. I dare say Selby is at his peak, and most comfortable, when he gets his way with Ronnie the way he does, but we seldom see the simultaneous battle of both players’ peaks when they play each other.

If “peak for peak, Selby is better” you’d expect him to have won 6 World Championships and 30 odd rankers. But he hasn’t. Because he isn’t.

Re: Ronnie may be the GOAT but Selby's the Sniper

Postby Iranu

Granite wrote:
TheRocket wrote:Its true that Selby has won all of the 4 ranking event finals but dont forget Ronnie is still leading the H2H and also has 2 Masters final wins. He is also the only player who beat Selby in all of the TC events.

Theres no doubt though that Selby will be remembered as the player who caused him big problems, maybe even more than Higgins has done even though thats up for debate.

But its not a big deal because if you look at other individual sports there is always someone who gives you the most trouble and who plays the type of game that doesnt suit yours, even if you're the GOAT. What counts for me is that he has won more than the likes of Higgins or Selby. He is the superior/greater player.


Ronnie's better against the field but peak for peak, Selby is better. He's got the best game to deal with Ronnie. Selby's probably the only player Ronnie fears.

Have you seen the Hendry and Ronnie interview they did during COVID? Ronnie said Selby was someone that had his number.

rofl

Re: Ronnie may be the GOAT but Selby's the Sniper

Postby TheRocket

Granite wrote:
TheRocket wrote:Its true that Selby has won all of the 4 ranking event finals but dont forget Ronnie is still leading the H2H and also has 2 Masters final wins. He is also the only player who beat Selby in all of the TC events.

Theres no doubt though that Selby will be remembered as the player who caused him big problems, maybe even more than Higgins has done even though thats up for debate.

But its not a big deal because if you look at other individual sports there is always someone who gives you the most trouble and who plays the type of game that doesnt suit yours, even if you're the GOAT. What counts for me is that he has won more than the likes of Higgins or Selby. He is the superior/greater player.


Ronnie's better against the field but peak for peak, Selby is better. He's got the best game to deal with Ronnie. Selby's probably the only player Ronnie fears.

Have you seen the Hendry and Ronnie interview they did during COVID? Ronnie said Selby was someone that had his number.


It is true that Selbys style of play is pretty good to cope with Ronnies but peak level is something else. Ronnie would overpower Selby and outscore him and he actually did on several occasions. But it has to be peak Ronnie, not B-game one.

There are only two players that can match and beat peak Ronnie and them two are Hendry and Higgins. I'd now put Trump into that category as well but there is a 14 year age gap between ROS and Trump so its not really fair to compare.

Re: Ronnie may be the GOAT but Selby's the Sniper

Postby orky

I'd much rather be considered the best ever as opposed to one of the very few who has a very good record against the best ever. That said Selby is one of the very few players in the history of the game who can beat a peak Ronnie in longer matches as has been proved. Here's to hoping they have many more big matches in the coming years. I love their matches because you really do not know who is going to win. Their World Semi last year was one of the best matches I have ever seen, from start to finish you couldn't take your eye off the match for a second. It says something about Selby when Ronnie had to play supernatural snooker in the last 3 frames and bar one miss in the decider into the green pocket when the match was almost safe, it would have been the best 3 frames of snooker from one player ever witnessed, anywhere, with the pressure at its utmost highest.

Re: Ronnie may be the GOAT but Selby's the Sniper

Postby Granite

Prop wrote:
Granite wrote:
TheRocket wrote:Its true that Selby has won all of the 4 ranking event finals but dont forget Ronnie is still leading the H2H and also has 2 Masters final wins. He is also the only player who beat Selby in all of the TC events.

Theres no doubt though that Selby will be remembered as the player who caused him big problems, maybe even more than Higgins has done even though thats up for debate.

But its not a big deal because if you look at other individual sports there is always someone who gives you the most trouble and who plays the type of game that doesnt suit yours, even if you're the GOAT. What counts for me is that he has won more than the likes of Higgins or Selby. He is the superior/greater player.


Ronnie's better against the field but peak for peak, Selby is better. He's got the best game to deal with Ronnie. Selby's probably the only player Ronnie fears.

Have you seen the Hendry and Ronnie interview they did during COVID? Ronnie said Selby was someone that had his number.


I’m not sure ‘peak for peak’ is an accurate statement. Selby prevents Ronnie from playing his peak game. I dare say Selby is at his peak, and most comfortable, when he gets his way with Ronnie the way he does, but we seldom see the simultaneous battle of both players’ peaks when they play each other.

If “peak for peak, Selby is better” you’d expect him to have won 6 World Championships and 30 odd rankers. But he hasn’t. Because he isn’t.


Ronnie has more titles because his game is better suited against the field (not that Selby's isn't bad ofc) but his style of play will allow him to win more vs the field whereas Selby has to give more extra, even against lower ranked players.

But against Selby, his game doesn't fly as much apart from the odd best of 11 match. Hence peak for peak, one match to decide it all, Selby's going to come out the winner.

Ronnie has never won a ranking event final in 4 attempts against Selby and was extremely lucky to win the SF in 2020. Ronnie had given up, he had no answers to Selby so just started to hit and hope. I took it as a compliment compared to disrespect actually, that Selby's so much better than Ronnie on a 1 v 1 that Ronnie's only hope to win against him is to rely on luck.

Only Selby can do that to Ronnie.

Re: Ronnie may be the GOAT but Selby's the Sniper

Postby TheRocket

Ronnie left Selby plum in the balls more often than not when he played those hit and hope shots so Selby should have been happy. And he would have been had he won. But he didnt. Because Ronnie played those 3 incredible frames in the end.

But if they play 10 times in a peak vs peak match, both would win a fair amount of matches. Maybe Selby would win more , maybe not we don't know.

But what would you choose if you were a Snookerplayer? Would you rather be the GOAT or someone who has a good H2H against the GOAT? I know what I would choose. Selby is still an All-Time Great obviously but he is not O'Sullivan/Hendry tier.

Re: Ronnie may be the GOAT but Selby's the Sniper

Postby Iranu

Granite wrote:Ronnie has more titles because his game is better suited against the field (not that Selby's isn't bad ofc) but his style of play will allow him to win more vs the field whereas Selby has to give more extra, even against lower ranked players.

But against Selby, his game doesn't fly as much apart from the odd best of 11 match. Hence peak for peak, one match to decide it all, Selby's going to come out the winner.

Ronnie has never won a ranking event final in 4 attempts against Selby and was extremely lucky to win the SF in 2020. Ronnie had given up, he had no answers to Selby so just started to hit and hope. I took it as a compliment compared to disrespect actually, that Selby's so much better than Ronnie on a 1 v 1 that Ronnie's only hope to win against him is to rely on luck.

Only Selby can do that to Ronnie.

I’m not sure I understand your first point. Loads of players play with the same style of play as Ronnie - Selby is more of an outlier - with a fraction of the success.

Selby’s also capable of playing the same way against lower-ranked players and used to way more than he does now (although this has changed a little in the last season or two.)

When has Selby beaten Ronnie playing at his peak? One of Selby’s strengths is his ability to disrupt Ronnie from his peak.

Is the Welsh Open more important than The Masters?

Dismissing the World SF as lucky is kind of harsh. Very few players if any could have done what Ronnie did in those last three frames, that’s not luck.

I agree Selby should see the hit and hopes as a compliment rather than disrespect. And I think we all know he wouldn’t have been talking about disrespect had he won the match - which he would have expected to once he saw that happening.