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Are we seeing a changing of the guard?

Postby mick745

The players at the top who are now in their 40s have had it their own way for a very long time, but many of them no longer look like they'll be regular tournament winners from now on. Higgins, Williams, O'S etc are not now going to get any better, the only question is how long they will now hang around at the top of the rankings.

Even the ones who followed the class of 92, Selby, Murphy, Robertson, may be starting to crack.

Is the UK final line-up (two young players, neither from the uk) a sign of things to come?

Ding has now been unsurped by younger chinese players (he's now the 4th highest ranked chinese player). Is the chinese takeover finally being realised?

Is the future now in the hands of Brecel, Xintong, Yuelong, Bingtao, Boiko, LBM, etc?

Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard?

Postby SteveJJ

But a tad early to say one way or the other based on one tournament. I suspect most of the remaining tournaments if not all will be won by the usual suspects.

Shootout excepted perhaps.

Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard?

Postby orky

Maybe too early to say but if there is a changing of the guard it is about time! Come to think of it two of the three majors this calendar year will be won by young players so may be it is happening. Brecel and Xingtong were simply unbelievable today and if they can consistently play to a high standard there's no reason why they can't be at the latter end of most tournaments.

Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard?

Postby TheRocket

Not really.

Williams,Allen,Robertson,Trump are the tournament winners this season. And in 3 of them Higgins was the runner up. There need to be a lot more finals like this UK final to really make it a changing of the guard.

Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard?

Postby Andre147

TheRocket wrote:Not really.

Williams,Allen,Robertson,Trump are the tournament winners this season. And in 3 of them Higgins was the runner up. There need to be a lot more finals like this UK final to really make it a changing of the guard.


Yes I've heard it before. 2012 when Trump beat Ronnie at The Masters (he'd beaten him at the UK Champs previously) and everyone saying the changing of the guard was happening. Not really was it?

Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard?

Postby orky

I agree these youngsters need to be more consistent, no doubt about it but I do think it's a positive sign that two of the three major trophies this calendar year will be held by young players. As for a so called changing of the guard in 2012 when Judd beat Ronnie - that was a joke. Never in a million years was that the case, Ronnie back then was way too good. Now he himself looks vulnerable. He will defo win more rankers but we're probably looking at one or maybe two a year. Hopefully other young players take note of tomorrow's final and they themselves start doing the business.

Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard?

Postby HappyCamper

Probably not be a step change. Just a gradual shift over time. Plenty of life in the likes of Selby, Higgins, O'Sullivan, et al left.

Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard?

Postby McManusFan

It could be the start of one. But don't forget Higgins has already reached three finals this season, so it isn't going to be anything drastic. It'll be nice to see some new faces in the later stages more regularly.

Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard?

Postby KrazeeEyezKilla

To be fair to Trump while he didn't take over or replace O'Sullivan he did firmly establish himself as a top 8 player and regular tournament winner. If both Zhao and Luca can manage something like that it would be a big change. Especially with Yan Bingtao and Zhou Yuelong also coming through.

Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard?

Postby vodkadiet1

KrazeeEyezKilla wrote:To be fair to Trump while he didn't take over or replace O'Sullivan he did firmly establish himself as a top 8 player and regular tournament winner. If both Zhao and Luca can manage something like that it would be a big change. Especially with Yan Bingtao and Zhou Yuelong also coming through.


Yuelong is a journeyman at best. Bingtao and Xintong are a cut above the other Chinese players.

Brecel was like the Richard Gasquet of snooker. So much was expected of him at such a young age. Maybe now he is playing with less pressure and will reach his potential? As much as Xintong would be a great winner tomorrow, snooker would benefit more if Brecel won as he would be the first winner of a major event from mainland Europe and that would make the sport even more popular over there.

Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard?

Postby chengdufan

What worries me is the decline in the popularity of snooker here in China. My regular club is under renovation, converting itself to a pool hall. When I got to the next place, they had 20 pool tables and two snooker tables. Unprompted at the reception desk they said 'sorry, there are no tables. You can wait about an hour or play snooker'. I said I'm here to play snooker. After they set the balls up, they said they'd let me know when a pool table got freed up.

The vast majority of snooker players and viewers here are all aged 30-50. Everyone under 30 is playing Chinese 8-ball (which is taking off in a big way). Zhao winning the UK probably won't help much, but him (or another exciting to watch young Chinese player) getting to a world final, and events returning to China are desperately needed.

Don't underestimate the financial impact of snooker's declining popularity in China.

Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard?

Postby RunningSide

Good info chengdufan, alarming to,if China suddenly loses interest major blow to world snooker. Do you think world finals would sway things back.

Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard?

Postby cupotee

RunningSide wrote:Good info chengdufan, alarming to,if China suddenly loses interest major blow to world snooker. Do you think world finals would sway things back.


the wpbsa are the major blow to world snooker.

Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard?

Postby Juddernaut88

chengdufan wrote:What worries me is the decline in the popularity of snooker here in China. My regular club is under renovation, converting itself to a pool hall. When I got to the next place, they had 20 pool tables and two snooker tables. Unprompted at the reception desk they said 'sorry, there are no tables. You can wait about an hour or play snooker'. I said I'm here to play snooker. After they set the balls up, they said they'd let me know when a pool table got freed up.

The vast majority of snooker players and viewers here are all aged 30-50. Everyone under 30 is playing Chinese 8-ball (which is taking off in a big way). Zhao winning the UK probably won't help much, but him (or another exciting to watch young Chinese player) getting to a world final, and events returning to China are desperately needed.

Don't underestimate the financial impact of snooker's declining popularity in China.


This is very sad to hear. I always assumed that Snooker was still very popular in China, how long has it been roughly when it has slowly started to decline?

Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard?

Postby chengdufan

It's just been the last year or so from my observation. Pool playing suddenly seems to have become massively popular. New big centres with lots of tables have opened up and the snooker places are dead or switching up their offerings.

The people watching snooker online appear (from their comments at least) to be from the 70s/80s generation.

It could just be Chongqing, or just me noticing a phenomenon that's not really there, but I believe it's happening and wouldn't comment on it otherwise.

Ding isn't bringing in any new fans it seems, and I can't really see success from Yan or Zhou inspiring many. It needs someone like Zhao, Wu Yize or Gao Yang to do something special.
A run from one of those to the World final or a big China event would almost certainly turn things around.

It doesn't help that you can't watch a final here live unless you're up from 3-6am...

Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard?

Postby mick745

Zhao reminds me a bit of a young Jimmy White, brilliant when fully firing but how many days will there be when he isnt?

Jimmy took a long time to master the tactical side of the game but by the time he'd got there Hendry had overtaken everybody. In fact Hendry said Jimmy played into his hands by leaving him lots of chances.

Concerning about what we hear from china. We have been quoted that their tv audiences were as high as about 250m for Ding's matches, is that now a thing of the past or was it exaggerated at the time? We dont know if Ding will reach his previous heights or not, but if he doesnt one world final in his career would be a poor showing.

I suppose time will tell if Gao Yang, Wu Yize, Zhao Jianbo, Lei Peifan or Chang Bingyu who are all still teenagers will make the cut but Covid would have scuppered some for sure.

Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard?

Postby lhpirnie

chengdufan wrote:It's just been the last year or so from my observation. Pool playing suddenly seems to have become massively popular. New big centres with lots of tables have opened up and the snooker places are dead or switching up their offerings.

The people watching snooker online appear (from their comments at least) to be from the 70s/80s generation.

It could just be Chongqing, or just me noticing a phenomenon that's not really there, but I believe it's happening and wouldn't comment on it otherwise.

Ding isn't bringing in any new fans it seems, and I can't really see success from Yan or Zhou inspiring many. It needs someone like Zhao, Wu Yize or Gao Yang to do something special.
A run from one of those to the World final or a big China event would almost certainly turn things around.

It doesn't help that you can't watch a final here live unless you're up from 3-6am...

The main thing is that success of Yan and Zhou will help others to succeed. They will feel that it's possible to break the British stranglehold and won't feel so much like outsiders. But yes, it will also need big tournaments to be staged in China. If a Chinese player wins the China Open it would be a massive boost.

Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard?

Postby The_Abbott

well its inevitable. One day soon they will all drop and its not like any of the Class of 92 will slip down they will all retire when the slip out the Top 16 I reckon.

We also need some young British talent or we will get left behind. Not many 20 somethings from the UK on the tour.

Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard?

Postby mick745

The_Abbott wrote:well its inevitable. One day soon they will all drop and its not like any of the Class of 92 will slip down they will all retire when the slip out the Top 16 I reckon.

We also need some young British talent or we will get left behind. Not many 20 somethings from the UK on the tour.


5 of the 7 youngest players on tour are chinese, with only one of those 7 (Jamie Wilson) from the uk some are making quicker progress than others, Yan becoming masters champion at 20 Zhao Xintong now making a breakthrough at 24. Not seeing many young british players in the latter stages of tournaments, the class of 92 all had success at a very young age.

Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard?

Postby Johnny Bravo

Not yet.
The class of 92 still have a couple of years left in them, probably until they reach 50. After that, they'll go downhill.
The likes of Robbo, Selbo, Allen, Smurf - have a minimum of 5 to 7 years left.
Trump has a decade and a half, due to having so much talent.

So we're not there yet. But as time goes by, the tide will begin to turn towards the youngsters.

Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard?

Postby TheRocket

I'm not that sure whether Judd Trump will have as much longevity as the likes of ROS. His cue action will be a big problem imo when he gets older and I think he'll miss a lot of balls. I think one reason he has only won 3 TC titles is because of that cue action. Its just not as reliable under pressure.

Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard?

Postby SnookerFan

The_Abbott wrote:well its inevitable. One day soon they will all drop and its not like any of the Class of 92 will slip down they will all retire when the slip out the Top 16 I reckon.

We also need some young British talent or we will get left behind. Not many 20 somethings from the UK on the tour.


Their nationality doesn't really bother me.

We've had generations of players mainly from Britain and Ireland. As a Brit, a player's country of origin doesn't really come into it for me when choosing who to support. Ding is one of my favourite players, I wanted Zhao to win yesterday. Quite like Robertson etc.

Maybe if we reached a point where the main tour was 99% non-Brit, I'd started supporting the one's that were. But at the moment, I actually am quite happy for the tour to become more international.

Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard?

Postby Juddernaut88

SnookerFan wrote:
The_Abbott wrote:well its inevitable. One day soon they will all drop and its not like any of the Class of 92 will slip down they will all retire when the slip out the Top 16 I reckon.

We also need some young British talent or we will get left behind. Not many 20 somethings from the UK on the tour.


Their nationality doesn't really bother me.

We've had generations of players mainly from Britain and Ireland. As a Brit, a player's country of origin doesn't really come into it for me when choosing who to support. Ding is one of my favourite players, I wanted Zhao to win yesterday. Quite like Robertson etc.

Maybe if we reached a point where the main tour was 99% non-Brit, I'd started supporting the one's that were. But at the moment, I actually am quite happy for the tour to become more international.


:goodpost:
My top 5 favourite players of all time are:
Stephen Hendry
Judd Trump
Ding Junhui
Jack Lisowski
Luca Brecel

2 English players, 1 Scottish, 1 Chinese and 1 Belgian. I don't care about nationalities. All these 5 players have that unique something which has made me admire them and "lift my skirt" as manty would say.

Re: Are we seeing a changing of the guard?

Postby TheRocket

never cared about nationality in an individual sport. They all play for themselves. In my case I'd support a non-German player over a German player if the non-German plays the type of game I like to watch.

And the sign of a real legend is that they get the support from all people, irrespective of nationality. Ronnie probably gets bigger support in China than the Chinese players. Ding only exception.


   

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