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Re: New Ideas for Snooker

Postby shanew48

All the top players have the ability to play in an open and entertaining manner like we just witnessed with Luca and XI but some of them choose to play in a certain way unfortunately.

Re: New Ideas for Snooker

Postby shanew48

These two semi finals have been the cricket equivalent of twenty20 vs test cricket, test cricket will probably be no more in 10 years time whereas the shorter formats will continue to prosper.

Looks like the WC may be moving to pastures new at some point, I’m the past it was stated that it would never move from Sheffield but now it seems the money may be too much to turn down, judd will be pleased, at least the players will be able to earn much more money for the WC anyway, would be interesting if a LIV tour situation materialised, wonder bar Murphy who would turn down the money to defect?

https://metro.co.uk/2023/04/27/barry-he ... 88599/amp/

Re: New Ideas for Snooker

Postby shanew48

shanew48 wrote:These two semi finals have been the cricket equivalent of twenty20 vs test cricket, test cricket will probably be no more in 10 years time whereas the shorter formats will continue to prosper.

Looks like the WC may be moving to pastures new at some point, I’m the past it was stated that it would never move from Sheffield but now it seems the money may be too much to turn down, judd will be pleased, at least the players will be able to earn much more money for the WC anyway, would be interesting if a LIV tour situation materialised, wonder bar Murphy who would turn down the money to defect?

https://metro.co.uk/2023/04/27/barry-he ... 88599/amp/


I think Carter would defect for sure, basically most of the players who have worked hard for years but haven't made fortunes out of the game would sign up for that Saudi cash in a heartbeat, I don’t blame them either, snooker is bloody difficult and it takes thousands of hours work to reach the level they have and the WST pay is very poor for the majority of the players so why not cash in if someone is offering you 10 or 20 times the money for likely having to play less than they currently do. It’s a no brainer.

Re: New Ideas for Snooker

Postby TheRocket

chengdufan wrote:Each to their own, but I thought it was very enjoyable. They weren't playing deliberately slowly. There were negative shot choices and some bad misses, but for me it simply added to the tension and was part of the spectacle


It is deliberate from Selbys part. On so many occasions throughout his career Selby has been taking 2-3 minutes just to play a simple roll up or the obvious shot.

Even Murphy who gets on well with Selby pointed it out today.

Re: New Ideas for Snooker

Postby SnookerEd25

There have been tournaments that have experimented with shot clocks and they didn’t really work.

The clamour for shot clocks in snooker is much like that of those who pulled for VAR in football; they thought it would solve so many problems, but have just opened can after can of worms.

The fact that such luminaries as ShaneW, Johnny B and, er, Shaun Murphy have called for it should tell you ALL you need to know.

Re: New Ideas for Snooker

Postby Pink Ball

I thought it was a mind-blowing session. I do worry about how it would go down with casual fans, and the sport does need them badly, but sometimes I feel like I'm in on the world's best kept secret just because I understand how much better snooker is than any other sport.

Re: New Ideas for Snooker

Postby SnookerEd25

Absolutely with you, Pink. And the fact that Snooker has two such wildly contrasting semi-finals shows up it’s beauty in a nutshell. If they were both like Selby-Allen, it would be worrying but the ‘casuals’ can enjoy Luca-Si to a (hopefully) dramatic conclusion this afternoon and leave us die-hards to journey (hopefully) into the wee small hours with an equally dramatic conclusion to Selby-Allen.

Win-win.

Re: New Ideas for Snooker

Postby Prop

SnookerEd25 wrote:Absolutely with you, Pink. And the fact that Snooker has two such wildly contrasting semi-finals shows up it’s beauty in a nutshell. If they were both like Selby-Allen, it would be worrying but the ‘casuals’ can enjoy Luca-Si to a (hopefully) dramatic conclusion this afternoon and leave us die-hards to journey (hopefully) into the wee small hours with an equally dramatic conclusion to Selby-Allen.

Win-win.


What if someone is enjoying both matches? :shrug:

Does that make them a casual die-hard? These are worrying signs :-(

Re: New Ideas for Snooker

Postby SnookerEd25

Prop wrote:
SnookerEd25 wrote:Absolutely with you, Pink. And the fact that Snooker has two such wildly contrasting semi-finals shows up it’s beauty in a nutshell. If they were both like Selby-Allen, it would be worrying but the ‘casuals’ can enjoy Luca-Si to a (hopefully) dramatic conclusion this afternoon and leave us die-hards to journey (hopefully) into the wee small hours with an equally dramatic conclusion to Selby-Allen.

Win-win.


What if someone is enjoying both matches? :shrug:

Does that make them a casual die-hard? These are worrying signs :-(


If you’re enjoying both matches, that’s the win-win bit. Johnny B could have done the math there <doh>

Re: New Ideas for Snooker

Postby lhpirnie

Here are the current Elo Ratings for the players who have entered the UK Q School 2023:

5248 Alexander Ursenbacher (Switzerland), 27
5246 Andrew Higginson (England), 45
5222 Alfie Burden (England), 46
5222 Louis Heathcote (England), 25
5218 Fraser Patrick (Scotland), 37
5217 Stuart Carrington (England), 32
5213 Peter Lines (England), 53
5189 Duane Jones (Wales), 30
5178 Gerard Greene (Northern Ireland), 49
5175 Mitchell Mann (England), 31
5173 Craig Steadman (England), 40
5169 Steven Hallworth (England), 27
5153 Florian Nüßle (Austria), 21
5152 Michael Holt (England), 44
5151 Barry Pinches (England), 52
5149 Haydon Pinhey (England), 26
5145 Andrew Pagett (Wales), 41
5142 Rhys Clark (Scotland), 28
5138 Robin Hull (Finland), 48
5136 Jamie O'Neill (England), 36
5132 Farakh Ajaib (England), 32
5126 Harvey Chandler (England), 28
5115 Iulian Boiko (Ukraine), 17
5112 Rory McLeod (Jamaica), 52
5111 Dean Young (Scotland), 21
5104 Billy Joe Castle (England), 30
5103 George Pragnell (England), 28
5096 Sydney Wilson (England), 33
5090 Simon Bedford (England), 47
5080 Michael Collumb (Scotland), 34
5079 Eden Sharav (Israel), 31
5076 Hamim Hussain (England), 22
5070 Liam Davies (Wales), 16
5068 Ian Martin (England), 41
5063 Daniel Womersley (England), 31
5062 Zack Richardson (England), 36
5055 Jamie Barrett (England), 39
5053 Ryan Davies (England), 21
5049 Riley Parsons (England), 23
5046 Chris Totten (Scotland), 24
5045 Ross Bulman (Ireland), 21
5044 Peter Devlin (England), 26
5044 Patrick Whelan (England), 25
5041 Liam Pullen (England), 17
5040 Luke Simmonds (England), 43
5040 Robbie Mcguigan (Northern Ireland), 18
5031 Mark Lloyd (England), 23
5023 Brian Ochoiski (France), 24
5023 Paul Deaville (England), 18
5020 Joshua Thomond (England), 26
5018 Kuldesh Johal (England), 42
5016 Aaron Busuttil (Malta), 31
5012 Lee Shanker (England), 35
5011 Alex Taubman (Wales), 34
5010 Tyler Rees (Wales), 24
5008 Alex Clenshaw (England), 21
5006 Rodion Judin (Latvia), 25
5006 Sean Maddocks (England), 21
4996 Daan Leyssen (Belgium), 36
4995 Chae Ross (England), 22
4994 Jack Bradford (Wales), 31
4989 Jordan Shepherd (Wales), 32
4988 Joshua Cooper (England), 26
4987 Gary Thomson (Scotland), 45
4987 Jamie Wilson (England), 19
4986 Antoni Kowalski (Poland), 19
4983 Ben Fortey (England), 26
4978 Umut Dikme (Germany), 23
4977 Gary Britton (Jersey), 49
4973 Ivan Kakovskii (Russia), 24
4970 Jed Mann (England), 23
4969 Wayne Townsend (England), 43
4968 Dharminder Singh Lilly (India), 48
4963 Stuart Watson (England), 46
4962 Alfie Davies (Wales), 22
4961 Josh Mulholland (England), 26
4959 Jack Harris (England), 23
4958 Neal Jones (England), 47
4958 Bulcsú Révész (Hungary), 16
4956 Saqib Nasir (England), 30
4955 Lewis Ullah (England), 21
4954 Matthew Glasby (England), 27
4952 Kayden Brierley (England), 21
4950 Stephen Kershaw (England), 47
4948 Lucky Vatnani (India), 37
4948 Niel Vincent (France), 22
4944 Jeff Cundy (England), 54
4942 David Allender (England), 47
4941 Alex Millington (England), 27
4939 Alfie Lee, 19
4937 Sean McAllister (England), 22
4935 Darryl Hill (Isle of Man), 27
4935 Joe Fenton (England), 20
4933 Luke Pinches (England), 21
4930 Tony Knowles (England), 67
4930 Phil O'Kane (England), 30
4929 Fergal Quinn (Ireland), 23
4928 Halim Hussain (England), 21
4927 Hayden Staniland (England), 22
4920 Jason Tart (England), 30
4915 John Parkin (England), 37
4914 Laxman Rawat (India), 31
4910 Brandon Hall (England), 23
4909 Andy Marriott (England), 38
4909 Jack Haley (England), 20
4906 Connor Benzey (England), 21
4905 Matthew Roberts (Wales), 34
4902 Nicolas Mortreux (France), 20
4900 Gary Miller (England), 58
4900 Mike Finn (England), 37
4899 Oliver Sykes (England), 17
4895 Jake Robinson (England), 25
4894 Daniel Holoyda (Poland), 24
4883 Andy Neck (England), 50
4878 Tom Maxfield (England), 29
4876 James Silverwood (England), 32
4874 Martyn Taylor (England), 34
4871 Marc Shaw (Wales), 41
4868 Simon Dent (England), 54
4864 Danny Brindle (England), 38
4862 Wang Chooi Tan (Belgium), 53
4861 Carl Bennett (Wales), 32
4857 Vladislav Gradinari (Moldova), 14
4856 James Height (England), 45
4855 Dean Reynolds (England), 60
4855 Mark Vincent (England), 38
4852 Nathan Jones (England), 33
4851 Bash Maqsood (England), 53
4850 Keith Keldie (Scotland), 41
4847 Labeeb Ahmed (England), 32
4844 Tam Mustafa (England), 45
4837 Yulu Bai (China), 19
4833 Ronnie Blake (England), 27
4831 Neil Craycraft (England), 49
4823 Andrew Greaves (England), 46
4818 Andrew Milliard (England), 58
4805 Andrew Doherty (Ireland), 27
4802 Anthony Krysa (Wales), 38
4801 Andrew Tapper (England), 42
4798 Andrei Orzan (Romania), 27
4791 Manuel Ederer (Germany), 30
4789 Samuel-Lee Stevens (England), 18
4785 Aidan Murphy (Ireland), 18
4785 Scott Bell (England), 32
4782 James Burrett (England), 44
4782 Edwin Depoorter (Belgium), 58
4777 Jack Borwick (Scotland), 16
4767 Ronnie Kralj (England), 28
4764 Bradley Cowdroy (England), 21
4757 Faizaan Mohammed (England), 19
4749 Abdul Raheem (Pakistan), 24
4748 Richard Pipe (England), 58
4737 Paul Burrell (South Africa), 55
4736 Jason Wright (England), 53
4736 Ronnie Sullivan (England), 18
4730 John Fearick (England), 30
4726 Aman Goel (Ireland), 39
4724 Juan Pedro Duran (Spain), 47
4723 Francisco Domingues (Portugal), 41
4714 James Lee (Canada), 35
4713 Amaan Iqbal (Scotland), 17
4713 Tom Peasland (England), 31
4708 Riley Powell (Wales), 14
4707 Neil Jones (Wales), 44
4705 Scott Rogan (England), 42
4704 Muhammed Aurangzaib (England), 51
4700 Mandeep Singh (India), 38
4699 Jake Crofts (England), 17
4696 Aidan Gallagher (England), 19
4695 Dale Prime (England), 33
4691 Kyle Holland (England), 31
4689 Anthony Wall (England), 21
4675 Ayaan Iqbal (Scotland), 16
4672 James Kirk (Guernsey), 31
4671 Nigel Clarke (England), 30
4669 Aristos Pampouris (England), 22
4669 Sam McKay (Scotland), 18
4665 Adam Williams (England), 21
4665 Gary Widdecombe (England), 46
4659 Ian Desmier (England), 54
4658 Darren McVicar (England), 48
4650 Sheldon O’Connor (England), 31
4647 Ben Pacan (England), 31
4641 Bradley Tyson (Wales), 20
4637 Heather Clare (England), 50
4633 Zac Cosker (Wales), 17
4618 Arturs Kengis (Latvia), 22
4608 Imran Puri (England), 59
4608 Daniel Walker (England), 40
4605 Simon Bevz (Australia), 49
4600 Elias Martin-Beris (England), 21
4599 Andrew Robson (England), 20
4581 Daniel Young (Germany), 42
4540 Michael Robert Joyce (England), 20
4504 Julien Leifert (Germany), 29
4502 Dylan Smith (England), 15
====== Not Found ========
Kriangsak Chiranothai
Pommy Kang
Edward Warr
Rupesh Thakkar
Ben Robinson
Rees Carter
Evan Plummer
Daniel Webb
Robert Cloherty
Ian Barlow
Jeremiah Connors

Re: New Ideas for Snooker

Postby lhpirnie

This is the list for Asia/Oceania Q School:

5185 Peifan Lei (China)
5082 Gao Yang (China)
5066 Cheung Ka Wai (Hong Kong)
5058 Wang Yuchen (China)
5054 Amir Sarkhosh (Iran)
5044 Thor Chuan Leong (Malaysia)
4982 Yu Kiu Chang (Hong Kong)
4980 Lin Shuai (China)
4979 Manasawin Phetmalaikul (England)
4969 Ng On Yee (Hong Kong)
4968 Babar Masih (Pakistan)
4967 Ishpreet Singh Chadha (India)
4962 Hamza Akbar (Pakistan)
4955 Shrikrishna Suryanarayanan (India)
4945 Chau Hon Man (Hong Kong)
4944 Fung Kwok Wai (Hong Kong)
4937 He Guoqiang (China)
4924 Habib Subah (Bahrain)
4910 Pongsak Chongjairak (Thailand)
4905 Jefrey Roda (Philippines)
4883 Khalid Kamali (United Arab Emirates)
4880 Huang Jiahao (China)
4872 Muhammad Naseem Akhtar (Pakistan)
4869 Daegyu Lee (South Korea)
4863 Nattanapong Chaikul (Thailand)
4849 Deng Haohui (China)
4842 Shivam Arora (India)
4838 Haris Tahir (Pakistan)
4836 Sparsh Pherwani (India)
4830 Asutosh Padhy (India)
4824 Jaden Ong Jia Jun (Singapore)
4822 Chatchapong Nasa (Thailand)
4820 Mubashir Raza (Pakistan)
4815 Chee Keong Chan (Singapore)
4805 Lee Tszho (China)
4799 Wiphu Phuthisabodi (Thailand)
4797 Digvijay Kadian (India)
4796 Morteza Torabi
4794 Muhammad Siddiqui (Thailand)
4790 Taweesap Kongkitchertchoo (Thailand)
4788 Zhang Zhijie (China)
4786 Luo Zetao (China)
4784 Hrithik Jain (India)
4784 Mohammad Ali Moghadam
4780 Rutul Pambhar (India)
4776 Kreishh Gurbaxani (India)
4776 Sharjeel Mahmood (Pakistan)
4774 Narongdat Takantong (Thailand)
4772 Keng Kwang Chan (Singapore)
4768 Putthakam Kimsuk (Thailand)
4766 Kingsley Ang (Singapore)
4757 Shahbaaz Khan (India)
4749 Alvin Barbero (Philippines)
4740 Muhammad Ahsan Javaid (Pakistan)
4735 Awaisullah Munir (Pakistan)
4730 Ren Jiaxing (China)
4730 Ka Lam Lau (Hong Kong)
4726 Tawan Pooltong (Thailand)
4726 Zulfiqar Abdul Qadir (India)
4726 Liang Xiaolong (China)
4717 Umer-Naeem Memon
4707 Abdulrahman Saif (United Arab Emirates)
4703 Alireza Rezaei (Iran)
4700 Deng Jinhong (China)
4697 Gong Chenzhi (China)
4695 Ayman Alamri (Saudi Arabia)
4690 Amin Sanjaei (Iran)
4677 Umar Khan (Pakistan)
4675 Moti Pakharin (Nepal)
4670 Liu Wenwei (China)
4664 Sumer Mago (India)
4657 Li Chengjie (China)
4649 Nader Jaber Aldoseri (Bahrain)
4639 Milan Lama (Nepal)
4625 Muhammad Imran (Pakistan)
4600 Muhammad Azhar Khan (Pakistan)
4585 Chen Xiaolong (China)
4554 Kwan Chun Wong (Hong Kong)
4524 Yee Ting Cheung (Hong Kong)
4409 Dhruv Patel (India)
====== Not Found ========
Aamir Sohail Ahmed
Mehran Maneshgar
Hwang Yong
Hamed Zaredoost
Sattar Noor
Qadeer Abbas Bhatti
Yasir Karim Jesani
Arman Mardanighafarokhi
Som Bahadur Tamang
Behnam Farshkaran
Lai Hoi Ming
Vorawit Thongweang
Prin Ratmukda
Yeung Kai Sang
Nadeem Gull Shair
Shih Iyang
Muhammad Arshad Nasir
Omid Veirani
Chan Hon Kwan

Re: New Ideas for Snooker

Postby lhpirnie

I have updated the ranking list to include the Q Schools, and various other amateur events.

The highest ranked player to qualify from Q School was Arnie Ursenbacher, at 66, fractianally ahead of Andrew Higginson. The lowest rated was Quid Phetmalaikul, at 311. But that's not too bad - last year Jenson Kendrick was much lower than that.

http://www.snookerlewis.com/elo_ratings

Re: New Ideas for Snooker

Postby SnookerFan

lhpirnie wrote:I have updated the ranking list to include the Q Schools, and various other amateur events.

The highest ranked player to qualify from Q School was Arnie Ursenbacher, at 66, fractianally ahead of Andrew Higginson. The lowest rated was Quid Phetmalaikul, at 311. But that's not too bad - last year Jenson Kendrick was much lower than that.

http://www.snookerlewis.com/elo_ratings


Good use of the New Ideas For Snooker thread.

Re: New Ideas for Snooker

Postby RunningSide

Been considering booking holiday in naturists camp in Dorset, it has a full sized table, can anyone think of any drawbacks where things could be awkward.

Re: New Ideas for Snooker

Postby Iranu

RunningSide wrote:Been considering booking holiday in naturists camp in Dorset, it has a full sized table, can anyone think of any drawbacks where things could be awkward.

Drawing back the cue could be risky if someone stands too close

Re: New Ideas for Snooker

Postby RunningSide

Thinking leaning over middle pocket to a pot into corner pocket could be diabolical, careful what you respond.

Re: New Ideas for Snooker

Postby chengdufan

RunningSide wrote:Been considering booking holiday in naturists camp in Dorset, it has a full sized table, can anyone think of any drawbacks where things could be awkward.

Meeting Pink Ball in the flesh

Re: New Ideas for Snooker

Postby Holden Chinaski

chengdufan wrote:
RunningSide wrote:Been considering booking holiday in naturists camp in Dorset, it has a full sized table, can anyone think of any drawbacks where things could be awkward.

Meeting Pink Ball in the flesh

rofl

Re: New Ideas for Snooker

Postby RunningSide

Imagine been criticised for lack of drawback.

Re: New Ideas for Snooker

Postby lhpirnie

Rankings have been updated following the Summer Championsip League, and just before the Huangguoshu Pro-Am, which counts, of course. Shaun Murphy's win wasn't quite enough to elevate him to No.1, mainly because the CL matches are so short.

Re: New Ideas for Snooker

Postby gninnur karona

The Huangguoshu Pro-Am last eight consists of seven familiar names and one that I had never previously heard of - Zhao Hanyang (your end July world ranked number 1241). Cuetracker reveals that he played in several Asian PTC events achieving a 40% win record. Astonishingly one of his opponents happened to be Yuan Sijun. The two met at the 2013 Yixing Open - Yuan Sijun triumphing 4-2. Running a forecast comparison on your elo details for the upcoming quarter final reveals that anything other than a 4-0 Yuan Sijun win will result in him losing points. Conversely Zhao Hanyang requires only one frame to gain points. The most striking thing though is whereas the number of frames won matters for a Yuan Sijun victory, it has a negligible impact on your rankings if Zhao Hanyang wins. Zhao Hanyang gains: 14 points if losing 4-3; 19 points if winning 4-3; 20 points if winning by any other score including 4-0. I'm struggling to understand why the number of frames won is influential or insignificant depending upon which player wins the match.

Re: New Ideas for Snooker

Postby lhpirnie

gninnur karona wrote:The Huangguoshu Pro-Am last eight consists of seven familiar names and one that I had never previously heard of - Zhao Hanyang (your end July world ranked number 1241). Cuetracker reveals that he played in several Asian PTC events achieving a 40% win record. Astonishingly one of his opponents happened to be Yuan Sijun. The two met at the 2013 Yixing Open - Yuan Sijun triumphing 4-2. Running a forecast comparison on your elo details for the upcoming quarter final reveals that anything other than a 4-0 Yuan Sijun win will result in him losing points. Conversely Zhao Hanyang requires only one frame to gain points. The most striking thing though is whereas the number of frames won matters for a Yuan Sijun victory, it has a negligible impact on your rankings if Zhao Hanyang wins. Zhao Hanyang gains: 14 points if losing 4-3; 19 points if winning 4-3; 20 points if winning by any other score including 4-0. I'm struggling to understand why the number of frames won is influential or insignificant depending upon which player wins the match.

Yes, the reason for that is the swing coefficient is different for players who don't play often. Zhao Hanyang has played only 55 frames in my database during the years 2012-2022, so his 'swing' is still high, indicating that his rating is not as accurate as Yuan Sijun, who played 1656 frames, so his rating is now deemed 'stable'.


However, I am investingting the 'mesh' approach, where the swing rises and falls with activity. For example, John Parrott was still in the top 150 for years, playing only a few frames per year in seniors events. This meant his rating didn't go down as quickly as it should. But all of this requires enough data to analyse it properly, which I'm still gathering. Ratings will generally go up and down a lot, which is a culture shock for snooker, which is used to the same player being at the top for years by winning a World Championship.

But I really would like some more results from Chinese tournaments, which are often very difficult to obtain. A lot of the younger Chinese players are seriously under-rated as they didn't play any matches during 2020-22.

Re: New Ideas for Snooker

Postby lhpirnie

I have updated the Elo Ratings following the Huangguoshu Pro-Am. I had to put the results in manually for that event.

Judd Trump's win regains him the No.1 ranking, but it's still extremely close. Any results involving Trump, Higgins, Murphy or O'Sullivan would likely see changes at the top. There just isn't a clear No.1 at the moment.