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Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Johnny Bravo

Pink Ball wrote:There's no way in hell Alex Higgins was a greater player than Ray Reardon, Mark Williams or Mark Selby.


If we are assessing his career and top game, then you are right, he wasn't. I simply think he has done more for the game than them, that's why he's ahead on my list.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Johnny Bravo

Pink Ball wrote:Fair enough, and true. But I personally don't see how legacy has anything to do with who the best players are. Maybe we're discussing two different arguments there.


Good point. When assessing greatness, legacy plays a huge part as far as I'm concerned.
If we are only assessing who's the best, then you are right, Alex was not better than Selbo, Reardon or MJW.

The name of the topic is "top 10 players of all time", but it doesn't state "top 10 best players" or "top 10 greatest players", so I assumed it's the latter, so that's how I made my list.

Like I said, IMO there is a difference between the 2 notions.

If we're only talking about the best, then 4 me it's all about the A game, nothing else matters.

Given that we each have different opinions on what greatness means and what being the best means, I don't think this debate will ever be settled. So in a way, nobody is universally right cause it's all about perception.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Cloud Strife

Pink Ball wrote:
vodkadiet wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:He was, actually. He had a lot of natural ability.


'Natural ability', 'unnatural ability', a complete 'lack of ability', they are all in the eyes of the beholder.....

Gray played a great match against Dominic Dale at The Crucible in the 2nd round one year; he ran Dale close but Dale sneaked it 13-1. I don't know who Gray beat in the first round. Just another numpty I guess...

He was also a ranking event winner and a top-16 player who probably should have won more. He simply did not have the temperament to make even 20% of what he could have been. Only the occasional flash of brilliance. Still arguably a better player than most of the 90s, though.


Gray also reached a UK final, let's not forget. Unfortunately that's as good as it got for him as he, not long after, went from that high point to the low of waking up in a ditch in Thailand.

Pitiful waste of talent.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Johnny Bravo

vodkadiet wrote:'Achievements outweigh opinion every time' - Clive Everton


Achievements are just a factor in assesing greatness IMO.
Peak form / A game, legacy / impact on the sport and longevity are also important.

Achievements depend on the era in which u play, the level of the sport and your opposition at the time.
A weaker player can win more simply because he played in a weaker era. For example Dennis Taylor has won the WC while Trump and Ding haven't.
Anyone who knows the game will tell you that the last 2 are better than him despite not having a WC on their resume.
Another example is Nigel Bond, who managed to reach a WC final in the early 90's. That doesn't mean he's a better player than lets say Mark Allen. Hell, a young kid like Bingtao will trash any version of Nigel Bond.

If achievements were the only factor in measuring greatness, then Joe Davis is the greatest of all time and he'll never be beaten.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Pink Ball

Dan-cat wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:1. Ronnie O'Sullivan
2. Stephen Hendry
3. John Higgins and Steve Davis
5. Ray Reardon
6. Mark Williams
7. Mark Selby
8. Alex Higgins
9. Ding Junhui and Neil Robertson


You reckon peak Reardon would be able to handle peak Willo?

If he was playing nowadays and learned his trade in the current environment, yes

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Holden Chinaski

1. Ronnie O'Sullivan
2. Stephen Hendry
3. John Higgins
4. Steve Davis
5. Ray Reardon
6. Mark Williams
7. Mark Selby
8. Neil Robertson
9. Ding Junhui
10. Jimmy White
11. Alex Higgins
12. Shaun Murphy
13. Peter Ebdon
14. John Parrott
15. Paul Hunter
16. John Spencer
17. Cliff Thorburn
18. Ken Doherty
19. Terry Griffiths
20. Judd Trump

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Iranu

Pink Ball wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:1. Ronnie O'Sullivan
2. Stephen Hendry
3. John Higgins and Steve Davis
5. Ray Reardon
6. Mark Williams
7. Mark Selby
8. Alex Higgins
9. Ding Junhui and Neil Robertson


You reckon peak Reardon would be able to handle peak Willo?

If he was playing nowadays and learned his trade in the current environment, yes

If Reardon was playing now the whole complexion of snooker would be different because he wouldn't have influenced the 80s in the way he did, so that's kind of an impossible call.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby TheSaviour

Well yes, any given sport is about who just makes it there to play. So about "orienteering". After admitting that can the discussions about different eras to begin. Yes, it is all about "orienteering", but try to tell that to Gary Wilson lol.

It is also a plain rubbish to claim that someone from some particular country couldn´t be there. The statistics are there, yes, but there always are some exceptions.

All of them who are there deserves to be there. And all of those who aren´t doesn´t derserve to be there. That´s 100% truth. It is just a very bold claim from for example some pundit working for the BBC to argue who surely are there. Who deserves that top-10 status. Well perhaps not that much bold to name let´s say 5/10. Or so.

But try to tell that to Gary Wilson lol. I had my doubts considering Gary but won´t have any anymore. He looks awfully stubborn at the moment, so we never know what will happen in Sheffield.. Or after that. He´s the best of the Wilsons currently. Kyren is much like that female tennis player Petra Kvitova; any given precise pot, shot or a cannon and he´s the man to do that but lacking that overall break-building, which he used to posses, at the moment.

Selby can well win in Sheffield again. Anthony McGill may well win it too. Gary could well win it too. Ronnie and Higgins are way back, even when the late results would suggest otherwise. Williams and Trump have their unique classes but their weaknesses also. Which I feel I have covered and explained quite well, just scroll back my posting history. Yan Bingtao, Stuart Bingham and Ding also are there to challenge, just like Ronnie and Higgins are. Shaun´s got some issues regarding cueing too straightly and won´t be challenging, I am afraid. Stephen Maguire, Mark King, Luca Brecel, Barry Hawkins are a black horses, but not anything else. Dott, O´Brien, Ebdon, hardly.

What growns naturally grows naturally. The people have just been unable to see that. But they have had their correct anticipations and quesses. So each for their own.

My other issue would be that it hardly would be a worth of it to throw away all those other great characters. That´s like an other, better world. The likes of Robbo, Stevens, Joe Perry. A bit rusty at the moment but the winning isn´t everything.
Last edited by TheSaviour on 06 Mar 2018, edited 2 times in total.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Pink Ball

TheSaviour wrote:Well yes, any given sport is about who just makes it there to play. So about "orienteering". After admitting that can the discussions about different eras to begin. Yes, it is all about "orienteering", but try to tell that to Gary Wilson lol.

It is also a plain rubbish to claim that someone from some particular country couldn´t be there. The statistics are there, yes, but there always are some exceptions.

All of them who are there deserves to be there. And all of those who aren´t doesn´t derserve to be there. That´s 100% truth. It is just a very bold claim from for example some pundit working for the BBC to argue who surely are there. Who deserves that top-10 status. Well perhaps not that much bold to name let´s say 5/10. Or so.

But try to tell that to Gary Wilson lol. I had my doubts considering Gary but won´t have any anymore. He looks awfully stubborn at the moment, so we never know what will happen in Sheffield.. Or after that. He´s the best of the Wilsons currently. Kyren is much like that female tennis player Petra Kvitova; any given precise pot, shot or a cannon and he´s the man to do that but lacking that overall break-building, which he used to posses, at the moment.

Selby can well win in Sheffield again. Anthony McGill may well win it too. Gary could well win it too. Ronnie and Higgins are way back, even when the late results would suggest otherwise. Williams and Trump have their unique classes but their weaknesses also. Which I feel I have covered and explained quite well, just scroll back my posting history. Yan Bingtao, Stuart Bingham and Ding also are there to challenge, just like Ronnie and Higgins are. Shaun´s got some issues regarding cueing too straightly and won´t be challenging, I am afraid. Stephen Maguire, Mark King, Luca Brecel, Barry Hawkins are a black horses, but not anything else. Dott, O´Brien, Ebdon, hardly.

What growns naturally grows naturally. The people have just been unable to see that. But they have had their correct anticipations and quesses. So each for their own.

My other issue would be that it hardly would be a worth of it to throw away all those other great characters. That´s like an other, better world. The likes of Robbo, Stevens, Joe Perry. A bit rusty at the moment but the winning isn´t everything.

Are we ever going to ban this idiot? It was funny at first.

If I did that once I'd be out on my bottom.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby SnookerFan

Badsnookerplayer wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:It’s more painful when it’s your thread.

It must be especially traumatic for Pinkball as he is not the sort to fill anybody else's thread with irrelevant comments.


rofl rofl rofl

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Dan-cat

Badsnookerplayer wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:It’s more painful when it’s your thread.

It must be especially traumatic for Pinkball as he is not the sort to fill anybody else's thread with irrelevant comments.


Heheeh true. But they don't go on for four paragraphs

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Johnny Bravo

Mr Vodka we met yet again. En garde !!! :fence:

vodkadiet wrote:Today's standard is rubbish and that is why we are on the verge of having two 43 year olds in the final.


Or maybe they are just that good. I'll take Wilson's opinion over yours any day of the week. <cool> :chuckle:

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Alex0paul

Holden Chinaski wrote:edit wrong thread


He played in an era with the Greatest player. Titles were at a premium.