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Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby vodkadiet1

Johnny Bravo wrote:
vodkadiet1 wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:In your face Vodka:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYP655z1ryo


And?

3 opinions don't equal 7 world titles....


It's not just 3 opinions, 90% of the snooker pundits and players think ROS is the GOAT now, probably even Hendry himself, although he won't admit that publicly. But u can see the way he has changed his attitude in recent years. A few years ago, when asked who'd win between him and ROS, both at his best, he used to say himself without any hesitation. Now, he says it's too hard to call. Given Hendry's personality, that's basically an admittance that ROS is superior, although his ego prevents him from admitting it out loud.

Had Hendry started his career at the same time as the class of 92, he wouldn't have won 7 WC.



This diatribe doesn't equate to actually winning the most important title of them all.


And as for all this 'triple crown' garbage, as if even 3 UK titles or 3 Masters titles are equal to 1 World Championship.



rofl rofl rofl rofl

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Johnny Bravo

vodkadiet1 wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote: Had Hendry started his career at the same time as the class of 92, he wouldn't have won 7 WC.


This diatribe doesn't equate to actually winning the most important title of them all.

No it doesn't, but Hendry wouldn't have won 7 either. He'd have 3 or 4 at best.


vodkadiet1 wrote:And as for all this 'triple crown' garbage, as if even 3 UK titles or 3 Masters titles are equal to 1 World Championship.
rofl rofl rofl rofl


1 Masters + 1 UK = 1 WC

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby vodkadiet1

Johnny Bravo wrote:
vodkadiet1 wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote: Had Hendry started his career at the same time as the class of 92, he wouldn't have won 7 WC.


This diatribe doesn't equate to actually winning the most important title of them all.

No it doesn't, but Hendry wouldn't have won 7 either. He'd have 3 or 4 at best.


vodkadiet1 wrote:And as for all this 'triple crown' garbage, as if even 3 UK titles or 3 Masters titles are equal to 1 World Championship.
rofl rofl rofl rofl


1 Masters + 1 UK = 1 WC


How many players if asked the question "Would you rather win 1 UK Championship and 1 Masters or 1 World Championship would have to even think about that question for more than one hundredth of a second?

:roll:

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Johnny Bravo

vodkadiet1 wrote:How many players if asked the question "Would you rather win 1 UK Championship and 1 Masters or 1 World Championship would have to even think about that question for more than one hundredth of a second?

:roll:


I get it that most would rather have a WC, it's common sense. But that doesn't mean the WC is worth more than 1 UK + 1 Masters.

Plus Hendry wouldn't have won 7. His titles are less valuable cause of the weak opposition he faced.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Iranu

Johnny 1 WC is clearly worth more than 1 UK + 1 Masters.

Tournaments are only worth what players think they’re worth.

So if every player would swap the 2 other TCs for 1 WC (and I believe that every single player would), that means the Worlds is worth more than both the UK and The Masters.

But that shouldn’t matter. Thinking Ronnie is the best means that you value more than results in your sportspeople. So who won the more important tournaments doesn’t really matter. <ok>

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Holden Chinaski

MARK WILLIAMS M.B.E @markwil147

"John Higgins for me is the second best player of all time in front of Hendry . Can win playing is D game, best player under pressure dishing up . Bottle is unreal, still doing it at 43. #nootherplayercouldhavewonthatmatch"

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Erza Scarlet

I'm surprised McManus put Ronnie up as #1 easily.

I know 90% of the Snooker fans and players think Ronnie is the GOAT but is it still bad if I feel Ronnie needs 1 more World Title to be the GOAT? Not asking for 7, just 6 would make it more...secure, if that makes sense :emb:

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby D4P

Erza Scarlet wrote:is it still bad if I feel Ronnie needs 1 more World Title to be the GOAT? Not asking for 7, just 6 would make it more...secure, if that makes sense :emb:


The only opinion on the topic that I have seen around here that I would label "bad" is the opinion that that the UK and Masters are not "major" tournaments, and that only the WSC is a "major".

Beyond that, you should feel free to apply your own set of standards to figuring out who the GOAT is...

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Iranu

I know what you mean Erza. A 6th would help with the statistical side of the debate (not with Vodka, obviously).

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Ash147

Erza Scarlet wrote:I'm surprised McManus put Ronnie up as #1 easily.

I know 90% of the Snooker fans and players think Ronnie is the GOAT but is it still bad if I feel Ronnie needs 1 more World Title to be the GOAT? Not asking for 7, just 6 would make it more...secure, if that makes sense :emb:


I’ve always thought that if Ronnie got to 6 World Titles, then that would be enough to make him the best ever. He’s overtaken Hendry in every other department, other than being joint in ranking titles, but that will go soon.

I do think 5 World Titles is too low, and that he’s underachieved massively in that department.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby KrazeeEyezKilla

I don't think it matters whether players would swap or trade their UK or Masters title for a World Title. It's not like it's something they are ever going to able to do or that winning those titles is preventing them from being World Champion.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Erza Scarlet

D4P wrote:The only opinion on the topic that I have seen around here that I would label "bad" is the opinion that that the UK and Masters are not "major" tournaments, and that only the WSC is a "major".

Beyond that, you should feel free to apply your own set of standards to figuring out who the GOAT is...


Yeah that's just from a few posters here who've become salty Ronnie has picked off Hendry's other records but the real Snooker world views them as the three majors.

I know you're a Ronnie fan but who do you consider the GOAT?

Iranu wrote:I know what you mean Erza. A 6th would help with the statistical side of the debate (not with Vodka, obviously).


Ash147 wrote:I’ve always thought that if Ronnie got to 6 World Titles, then that would be enough to make him the best ever. He’s overtaken Hendry in every other department, other than being joint in ranking titles, but that will go soon.

I do think 5 World Titles is too low, and that he’s underachieved massively in that department.


Yeah, #6 just gives that extra buffer.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby D4P

Erza Scarlet wrote:I know you're a Ronnie fan but who do you consider the GOAT?


If the G part of GOAT is defined in terms of my own subjective assessment of a player's ability, then I would vote for Ronnie. I consider him to be (far and away) the most talented player. No one can do what he does, especially when you consider how good he is playing lefthanded. For me, Ronnie makes snooker look easy, whereas I never get that feeling when I watch Hendry. Hendry looks like he's very good at a difficult game...

If the G part is defined in terms of titles and accomplishments, then I'm less certain. The snooker world places so much value on the WSC that for Ronnie to only be ranked 4th in WSC titles makes it difficult to argue that he has achieved more than anyone else in the game.

If we also take into account temperament/clutchness/mental toughness/etc., then Ronnie would clearly be nowhere near the top...

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Erza Scarlet

D4P wrote:
Erza Scarlet wrote:I know you're a Ronnie fan but who do you consider the GOAT?


If the G part of GOAT is defined in terms of my own subjective assessment of a player's ability, then I would vote for Ronnie. I consider him to be (far and away) the most talented player. No one can do what he does, especially when you consider how good he is playing lefthanded. For me, Ronnie makes snooker look easy, whereas I never get that feeling when I watch Hendry. Hendry looks like he's very good at a difficult game...

If the G part is defined in terms of titles and accomplishments, then I'm less certain. The snooker world places so much value on the WSC that for Ronnie to only be ranked 4th in WSC titles makes it difficult to argue that he has achieved more than anyone else in the game.

If we also take into account temperament/clutchness/mental toughness/etc., then Ronnie would clearly be nowhere near the top...


Oh yeah I don't disagree with you there Ronnie is the most talented player ever and we'll never see the same level of talent again. This is why I became a fan, he makes a really tough game look so easy and no one else can do that.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby vodkadiet1

D4P wrote:
Erza Scarlet wrote:I know you're a Ronnie fan but who do you consider the GOAT?


If the G part of GOAT is defined in terms of my own subjective assessment of a player's ability, then I would vote for Ronnie. I consider him to be (far and away) the most talented player. No one can do what he does, especially when you consider how good he is playing lefthanded. For me, Ronnie makes snooker look easy, whereas I never get that feeling when I watch Hendry. Hendry looks like he's very good at a difficult game...

If the G part is defined in terms of titles and accomplishments, then I'm less certain. The snooker world places so much value on the WSC that for Ronnie to only be ranked 4th in WSC titles makes it difficult to argue that he has achieved more than anyone else in the game.

If we also take into account temperament/clutchness/mental toughness/etc., then Ronnie would clearly be nowhere near the top...


The term 'Greatest' has nothing to do with talent.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby vodkadiet1

D4P wrote:
Erza Scarlet wrote:is it still bad if I feel Ronnie needs 1 more World Title to be the GOAT? Not asking for 7, just 6 would make it more...secure, if that makes sense :emb:


The only opinion on the topic that I have seen around here that I would label "bad" is the opinion that that the UK and Masters are not "major" tournaments, and that only the WSC is a "major".

Beyond that, you should feel free to apply your own set of standards to figuring out who the GOAT is...


When The UK Championship became best of 11s is ceased to be any more important than most other events.

The Masters has a lot of prestige and I would say it is definitely more important than The UK but it is not a 'major' as some describe it. It is like 'The European Championships' in athletics while The World Championships is equivalent to The Olympics.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby SnookerFan

vodkadiet1 wrote:
D4P wrote:
Erza Scarlet wrote:I know you're a Ronnie fan but who do you consider the GOAT?


If the G part of GOAT is defined in terms of my own subjective assessment of a player's ability, then I would vote for Ronnie. I consider him to be (far and away) the most talented player. No one can do what he does, especially when you consider how good he is playing lefthanded. For me, Ronnie makes snooker look easy, whereas I never get that feeling when I watch Hendry. Hendry looks like he's very good at a difficult game...

If the G part is defined in terms of titles and accomplishments, then I'm less certain. The snooker world places so much value on the WSC that for Ronnie to only be ranked 4th in WSC titles makes it difficult to argue that he has achieved more than anyone else in the game.

If we also take into account temperament/clutchness/mental toughness/etc., then Ronnie would clearly be nowhere near the top...


The term 'Greatest' has nothing to do with talent.


So, somebody with no talent at all can be the greatest?

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby vodkadiet1

SnookerFan wrote:
vodkadiet1 wrote:
D4P wrote:
Erza Scarlet wrote:I know you're a Ronnie fan but who do you consider the GOAT?


If the G part of GOAT is defined in terms of my own subjective assessment of a player's ability, then I would vote for Ronnie. I consider him to be (far and away) the most talented player. No one can do what he does, especially when you consider how good he is playing lefthanded. For me, Ronnie makes snooker look easy, whereas I never get that feeling when I watch Hendry. Hendry looks like he's very good at a difficult game...

If the G part is defined in terms of titles and accomplishments, then I'm less certain. The snooker world places so much value on the WSC that for Ronnie to only be ranked 4th in WSC titles makes it difficult to argue that he has achieved more than anyone else in the game.

If we also take into account temperament/clutchness/mental toughness/etc., then Ronnie would clearly be nowhere near the top...


The term 'Greatest' has nothing to do with talent.


So, somebody with no talent at all can be the greatest?


They could. But the likelihood of that happening is non existent. Anyway, the term 'talent' is just a matter of opinion.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby SnookerFan

vodkadiet1 wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:
vodkadiet1 wrote:
D4P wrote:
Erza Scarlet wrote:I know you're a Ronnie fan but who do you consider the GOAT?


If the G part of GOAT is defined in terms of my own subjective assessment of a player's ability, then I would vote for Ronnie. I consider him to be (far and away) the most talented player. No one can do what he does, especially when you consider how good he is playing lefthanded. For me, Ronnie makes snooker look easy, whereas I never get that feeling when I watch Hendry. Hendry looks like he's very good at a difficult game...

If the G part is defined in terms of titles and accomplishments, then I'm less certain. The snooker world places so much value on the WSC that for Ronnie to only be ranked 4th in WSC titles makes it difficult to argue that he has achieved more than anyone else in the game.

If we also take into account temperament/clutchness/mental toughness/etc., then Ronnie would clearly be nowhere near the top...


The term 'Greatest' has nothing to do with talent.


So, somebody with no talent at all can be the greatest?


They could. But the likelihood of that happening is non existent.


So, they could, except they can't?

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby vodkadiet1

If the G part of GOAT is defined in terms of my own subjective assessment of a player's ability, then I would vote for Ronnie. I consider him to be (far and away) the most talented player. No one can do what he does, especially when you consider how good he is playing lefthanded. For me, Ronnie makes snooker look easy, whereas I never get that feeling when I watch Hendry. Hendry looks like he's very good at a difficult game...

If the G part is defined in terms of titles and accomplishments, then I'm less certain. The snooker world places so much value on the WSC that for Ronnie to only be ranked 4th in WSC titles makes it difficult to argue that he has achieved more than anyone else in the game.

If we also take into account temperament/clutchness/mental toughness/etc., then Ronnie would clearly be nowhere near the top...[/quote]

The term 'Greatest' has nothing to do with talent.[/quote]

So, somebody with no talent at all can be the greatest?[/quote]

They could. But the likelihood of that happening is non existent.[/quote]

So, they could, except they can't?[/quote]

Who in snooker would you say had no talent? You would be hard pressed to a player on the tour with no talent. Again 'talent' is an intangible. It is just like you telling me there is a 'God'.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Pink Ball

1. Ronnie O'Sullivan
2. Stephen Hendry
3. John Higgins
4. Steve Davis
5. Mark Williams
6. Ray Reardon
7. Mark Selby
8. Neil Robertson
9. Alex Higgins
10. Judd Trump
11. Ding Junhui
12. Peter Ebdon
13. Jimmy White
14. John Parrott
15. John Spencer
16. Ken Doherty
17. Shaun Murphy
18. Cliff Thorburn
19. Terry Griffiths
20. Stuart Bingham

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Iranu

Pink, why is Robbo above Alex Higgins but Judd isn’t?

Not arguing, just curious. Their records are now pretty comparable after Judd winning the Masters and Worlds. Robbo obviously has more rankers but he’s 7-8 years older than Judd.