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Snooker And The British Class System

Postby Andy Spark

For all the disparaging articles about snooker I've read in the British press over the years, they seldom bring up the issue that I think is highly influential in decoding their attitude to snooker. The upper class used to sneer at the working class, now the middle class sneer at the upper class and snooker in all its waistcoated, bow tied glory is seen as upper class, therefore to be sneered at.

Actually, I think snooker is virtually unique in appealing to both upper and indeed working classes, while having less appeal to the majority middle class.

Anyway, just wondered what others thought about this most British of issues...
Last edited by Andy Spark on 15 Jul 2018, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Snooker And The British Class System

Postby Badsnookerplayer

I think you are bang-on about it being sneered at by the middle classes. I had only considered that to come from a disdain of the working classes but it is possible it is aimed at upper classes too. The BBC is - IMO - one of the most guilty parties in pandering to the upper-middle class ponces who would consider our great sport to be beneath them.

Viva snooker.

Re: Snooker And The British Class System

Postby Andy Spark

Badsnookerplayer wrote:I think you are bang-on about it being sneered at by the middle classes. I had only considered that to come from a disdain of the working classes but it is possible it is aimed at upper classes too. The BBC is - IMO - one of the most guilty parties in pandering to the upper-middle class ponces who would consider our great sport to be beneath them.

Viva snooker.

Yes Badsnookerplayer, I think the middle class hacks that write press articles that sneer at snooker (people like AA Gill!) are subconsciously aware of the appeal of snooker to both the working class and the upper class and fear a kind of pincer movement. Not that I dislike the majority middle classes, but familiarity can breed contempt. :party:

Re: Snooker And The British Class System

Postby Iranu

I don't think it's a class issue at all, to be honest. Tennis and rugby are both upper class sports and football is a working class sport.

I think it comes down to the perception that snooker is boring, plain and simple.

Then again I'm middle class so maybe I'm just being defensive.

Re: Snooker And The British Class System

Postby SnookerFan

Iranu wrote:I don't think it's a class issue at all, to be honest. Tennis and rugby are both upper class sports and football is a working class sport.

I think it comes down to the perception that snooker is boring, plain and simple.

Then again I'm middle class so maybe I'm just being defensive.


I'd agree with this.

I've heard people sneer at me for watching rugby games, because it's perceived as being middle-class, or posh. Not sure people really think that about snooker. I've heard it called boring a lot more times, than I've heard anybody talk it up as a posh sport.

Besides, is it considered posh? I've heard people say it's not a proper sport, more of a 'pub game' before. You get players like Jimmy White who used to practice snooker in sleazy snooker halls, when bunking off school.

I don't like attributing class to stuff like sport or entertainment, because I think people's upbringing, or what job they have, shouldn't effect what they like as a hobby. But if I did have to attribute one to snooker, I'd have thought it a more working class pursuit.

Re: Snooker And The British Class System

Postby SnookerFan

Pink Ball wrote:I like attributing class to stuff like sport or entertainment, because I think people's upbringing, or what job they have, should effect what they like as a hobby.


:goodpost:

Re: Snooker And The British Class System

Postby Andy Spark

SnookerFan wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:I like attributing class to stuff like sport or entertainment, because I think people's upbringing, or what job they have, should effect what they like as a hobby.


:goodpost:

I think that unfortunately it has an effect whether one likes it or not. If we all sing together, "I live in a classless society", some will sing it in operatic tones, others in shouts from the football terraces.


If we call "foul play" on criticism of snooker in the media, then we should be aware of class issues that are unfortunately in play.

Re: Snooker And The British Class System

Postby SnookerFan

I'm not class identity or class snobbery doesn't exist. More that I personally try not to let it influence in my deciding what to watch. It seems a waste of effort.

I was more interested in your ascertion that snooker had a middle-class reputation. I always thought it was seen as more of a working-class the thing. The sign of a misspent youth, and all that.

Re: Snooker And The British Class System

Postby Holden Chinaski

SnookerFan wrote:I'm not class identity or class snobbery doesn't exist. More that I personally try not to let it influence in my deciding what to watch. It seems a waste of effort.

I was more interested in your ascertion that snooker had a middle-class reputation. I always thought it was seen as more of a working-class the thing. The sign of a misspent youth, and all that.

Yes I remember watching a doc on Alex Higgins were it was clearly stated snooker was perceived as a working class sport.

Re: Snooker And The British Class System

Postby SnookerFan

Maybe it's changing though. Snooker halls are apparently closing down fast. You see pool tables in pubs, but rarely snooker tables. It's not something that ne'er-do-well kids bunk off school to go and play any more.

Kids now would rather play video games, or use their phones. *

Snooker tables are seen as expensive sport equipment, that you need a house big enough to include a spare room to use.

Maybe the reputation for sleazy snooker halls is dying out.

*I'm typing this on my phone.

Re: Snooker And The British Class System

Postby Andy Spark

SnookerFan wrote:I'm not class identity or class snobbery doesn't exist. More that I personally try not to let it influence in my deciding what to watch. It seems a waste of effort.

I was more interested in your ascertion that snooker had a middle-class reputation. I always thought it was seen as more of a working-class the thing. The sign of a misspent youth, and all that.

I would say snooker is working class and upper class in reputation; it seems to leapfrog the middle class. You are right to try to foster a classless outlook. (upper class gentleman raising his hat emoji) :hatoff:

Re: Snooker And The British Class System

Postby Pink Ball

SnookerFan wrote:Still can't believe that Williams is a three-time champ.

If I was told 20 years ago, I'd have had no problem believing it.
If I was told 15 years ago I'd have thought it would be an underachievement.
If I was told 1 year ago I'd have been like 'buck off you hammer.'

Re: Snooker And The British Class System

Postby SnookerFan

Pink Ball wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:Still can't believe that Williams is a three-time champ.

If I was told 20 years ago, I'd have had no problem believing it.
If I was told 15 years ago I'd have thought it would be an underachievement.
If I was told 1 year ago I'd have been like 'buck off you hammer.'


:goodpost:

Re: Snooker And The British Class System

Postby Holden Chinaski

Pink Ball wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:Still can't believe that Williams is a three-time champ.

If I was told 20 years ago, I'd have had no problem believing it.
If I was told 15 years ago I'd have thought it would be an underachievement.
If I was told 1 year ago I'd have been like 'buck off you hammer.'

Indeed.

Re: Snooker And The British Class System

Postby TheSaviour

But currently there quite strongly still reads that "will be grown up in an environment where..". I mean when we have some newcomers. So needless to write any documents or deals. The people are just deluding themselves and pretenting of being so "proud" and "dedicated" and so on fresh parents while obvious they are still 100% selfish and couldn´t actually less care in what kind of an environments their kids will be grown up or how their lives will be like. Needless to say who they will be reminding, so..... I am all good.

That´s quite petty that there still reads so, and that´s something which absolutely will not change.

So you have found this power struggle being something else than a world wide chickening out - contest?
They or we even have elected all the presidents and the prime ministers very well suitable for that. With a one obvious execption....

I still found those are some rather cheap shots. Not from me but from the scores. They are always like hey, I have that access but absolutely not going to explain anything to you. At least me or some others on here or on the tour can´t be blame of not trying to put an efforts to explain things and going ons to the scores of people.

If an individual is labelled to be something it is always all about that he or she must feel of being that. There would not be like 500 question to be asked that did you responded correctly and are you feeling real and seeing and hearing all the things correctly. It´s all about if you feel, for example, being deluded only then you can be labelled of being that. Without that own feeling no-one is going to pull a trigger. All those strange or poor feelings causes from seeing your own life meaningless. That´s always the reason. So that´s why I have all supported all the different systems or helping campaings to help the retired snooker players. No-one needs to feel his or her life meaningless. Completely regardless what are you doing or are you doing anything at all. Even feeling angry or frustrated all the time is better than that, if those feelings are just well controlled.

Most of the people are like that thought of yours must be like this, this, this and this. Regardless if you are in the class room, in meeting or just riding a bike when it is raining and bitterly cold. That thought of yours must be like this, this, this, this and this. That thinking pattern of yours now going on must be like this, this and this. That´s how people are running things and how they are thinking. But not me. I suppose they just don´t have that much constructive thinking processes going on in the brains, after all.

I suppose there just isn´t any fast or a simple way to make everything mentally neutral. Like the likes of me or Snookerfan has trying to run things. I now assume it just happens step by step during the time. With a team-work, where some people being highly valuable and most of the people not so valuable at all. Or even quite harmfull and irritating little b.......... But overally, I suppose I can digest this current situation. It´s a far, far cry from being anything even half decent but still somehow under the control. I am not feeling that much of being in a roller coaster now than I used to a couple of years ago. Not feeling that much great about all this, but somehow bearable. A bottle of red or a few quality beers every now and then obviously helps me with no end. The physics are still strong and do play their major, major part. Anyone just needs to know the amounts which are well suitable just for him or her.
Last edited by TheSaviour on 26 Jul 2018, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Snooker And The British Class System

Postby Dan-cat

Andy Spark wrote:For all the disparaging articles about snooker I've read in the British press over the years, they seldom bring up the issue that I think is highly influential in decoding their attitude to snooker. The upper class used to sneer at the working class, now the middle class sneer at the upper class and snooker in all its waistcoated, bow tied glory is seen as upper class, therefore to be sneered at.

Actually, I think snooker is virtually unique in appealing to both upper and indeed working classes, while having less appeal to the majority middle class.

Anyway, just wondered what others thought about this most British of issues...


Thought-provoking post this.

It's a pub/working men's club game really isn't it?

Or - toffs with a snooker room.

Re: Snooker And The British Class System

Postby Wildey

Iranu wrote:I don't think it's a class issue at all, to be honest. Tennis and rugby are both upper class sports and football is a working class sport.

I think it comes down to the perception that snooker is boring, plain and simple.

Then again I'm middle class so maybe I'm just being defensive.

Snooker is a slow burning game but if you not got the atention span of a gold fish and stay with it you will get the sort of excitement no other sport can hope to deliver.


most tabloid press are just something the cat drag in from the gutter and wouldnt know a good thing in a fit.