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Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Wildey

Ace wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:I would admit it if it was true but it's not. Judd has not played better than prime Hendry, Ronnie or Higgins. I've seen those players play superior snooker. Not a couple of times, but lots of times. Even when Judd was playing his best frames, he kept making it hard on himself by losing position.


I agree his cue ball control is not as good as Ronnie's, Hendry's and Higgins but that makes him more dangerous because he can pot them from anywhere and at any angle. Others need tight cue ball control. If you play a good safety then they'll have to crack in a long pot or something to get back in and this comes with a miss but against Judd safety doesn't work since he can pot them from everywhere, long pots go in like they're second nature to him + making big breaks no matter how he goes about it.

Yea but he equally misses them from any angle too.


Greatest players have tight cue ball so every pot looks easy.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Holden Chinaski

Ace wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:I would admit it if it was true but it's not. Judd has not played better than prime Hendry, Ronnie or Higgins. I've seen those players play superior snooker. Not a couple of times, but lots of times. Even when Judd was playing his best frames, he kept making it hard on himself by losing position.


I agree his cue ball control is not as good as Ronnie's, Hendry's and Higgins but that makes him more dangerous because he can pot them from anywhere and at any angle. Others need tight cue ball control. If you play a good safety then they'll have to crack in a long pot or something to get back in and this comes with a miss but against Judd safety doesn't work since he can pot them from everywhere, long pots go in like they're second nature to him + making big breaks no matter how he goes about it.

Prime Hendry and Ronnie had no trouble knocking in long pots either. And they got better position when they did it. And they were better break builders.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Ace

Wildey wrote:Yea but he equally misses them from any angle too.


Greatest players have tight cue ball so every pot looks easy.


Yeah but you can also say the greatest players have had days and will have days where their cue ball control isn't good too.

But I am talking about peak. Judd is like Alex Higgins in that he's creative and can pot balls from anywhere but more heavy scorer which allows him to pin opponents down like Higgins no matter how well they're playing.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Ace

Holden Chinaski wrote:
Ace wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:I would admit it if it was true but it's not. Judd has not played better than prime Hendry, Ronnie or Higgins. I've seen those players play superior snooker. Not a couple of times, but lots of times. Even when Judd was playing his best frames, he kept making it hard on himself by losing position.


I agree his cue ball control is not as good as Ronnie's, Hendry's and Higgins but that makes him more dangerous because he can pot them from anywhere and at any angle. Others need tight cue ball control. If you play a good safety then they'll have to crack in a long pot or something to get back in and this comes with a miss but against Judd safety doesn't work since he can pot them from everywhere, long pots go in like they're second nature to him + making big breaks no matter how he goes about it.

Prime Hendry and Ronnie had no trouble knocking in long pots either. And they got better position when they did it. And they were better break builders.


But did they have the same caliber of opponent as a Higgins who scored 8 50+ breaks including 4 centuries? Over a best of 35 in a world final with the highest pressure possible?

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Holden Chinaski

Ace wrote:
Wildey wrote:Yea but he equally misses them from any angle too.


Greatest players have tight cue ball so every pot looks easy.


Yeah but you can also say the greatest players have had days and will have days where their cue ball control isn't good too.

But I am talking about peak. Judd is like Alex Higgins in that he's creative and can pot balls from anywhere but more heavy scorer which allows him to pin opponents down like Higgins no matter how well they're playing.

Have you seen prime Hendry play man? He was unbelievable. His long pots under pressure, his positional play, his break-building under pressure... It was out of this world! The only person who has played better than that is absolute A-game Ronnie.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Ace

If this was a best of 19 I wouldn't say anything but the fact that it happened in the World final against John Higgins, probably the toughest match player of all time as everyone says he is and Judd's nemesis, and the way Judd did it against him who was also playing well, speaks volumes.

And Ronnie himself respects Higgins a lot and knows his game.
Last edited by Ace on 10 May 2019, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Wildey

Judd Trump has more shots in his armoury than other players his cue power is unbelievable but equally if he did not have that cue power he wouldnt have won as much as he has because his cueball not tight enough.

Hes very lucky to have that because its not something you can teach you either have it or you dont.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Ace

Wildey wrote:Judd Trump has more shots in his armoury than other players his cue power is unbelievable but equally if he did not have that cue power he wouldnt have won as much as he has because his cueball not tight enough.

Hes very lucky to have that because its not something you can teach you either have it or you dont.


Thank you. That's what I mean, most talented player. No one else his abilities or plays shots like him and he's not just a potter either, his all around game is much better and can call on his safety play when need to. Patience etc

In 2011 it was his raw ability we were shown. Not that raw ability has come to fruition.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Pink Ball

Ace wrote:If this was a best of 19 I wouldn't say anything but the fact that it happened in the World final against John Higgins, probably the toughest match player of all time as everyone says he is and Judd's nemesis, and the way Judd did it against him who was also playing well, speaks volumes.

And Ronnie himself respects Higgins a lot and knows his game.

Sullivan was also devastating from 0-5 down against Dott in 2004. And, yes, Dott of that era was better than Higgins is today.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Ace

Pink Ball wrote:
Ace wrote:If this was a best of 19 I wouldn't say anything but the fact that it happened in the World final against John Higgins, probably the toughest match player of all time as everyone says he is and Judd's nemesis, and the way Judd did it against him who was also playing well, speaks volumes.

And Ronnie himself respects Higgins a lot and knows his game.

Sullivan was also devastating from 0-5 down against Dott in 2004. And, yes, Dott of that era was better than Higgins is today.


Dott was in his first final ever and not a wc champion while Higgins is a 4th wc champion and 3rd final in a row. Ok he hasn't had a good season at all but he's been doing well at the crucible and he surprised people that he played well in the final but came up against Judd.

If i remember correctly Ronnie wasn't that great in the 2004 final, his best match was the SF.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Ace

Ok since everyone thinks Judd's snooker wasn't the best then what would the scorelines be for these matches:

2019 Judd vs:

2004 Ronnie/ 2013 Ronnie
1993 Hendry
1996 Higgins

I just want to know where everyone stands and how they're thinking

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Wildey

Ace wrote:Ok since everyone thinks Judd's snooker wasn't the best then what would the scorelines be for these matches:

2019 Judd vs:

2004 Ronnie/ 2013 Ronnie
1993 Hendry
1996 Higgins

I just want to know where everyone stands and how they're thinking

its impossible to say.


you see its a case of who gets in first in frames you see in the final Higgins refused pots Hendry in his prime would have gone for and more than likely got and he would have made a century while Judd was in his seat.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Ace

Btw talent can be different.

Ronnie's and Judd's talent is different. When Ronnie plays to his best people see the way he plays with tight cue ball control and finesse and say he's the most talented but who knows in the future the way Judd plays the game he can inspire lots of people to play like him and he can (already is by some) be seen as the most talented too.

Now people know what he's really about.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Ace

Wildey wrote:
Ace wrote:Ok since everyone thinks Judd's snooker wasn't the best then what would the scorelines be for these matches:

2019 Judd vs:

2004 Ronnie/ 2013 Ronnie
1993 Hendry
1996 Higgins

I just want to know where everyone stands and how they're thinking

its impossible to say.


you see its a case of who gets in first in frames you see in the final Higgins refused pots Hendry in his prime would have gone for and more than likely got and he would have made a century while Judd was in his seat.


Ok but what is your mind telling you?

If you guys think they're better than Judd than surely you can give a ballpark scoreline figure? Otherwise it doesn't make sense.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby sootywooty

I think now at his best is good enough to win lots with maybe ROS and JH a little on the wane at times now.

But also the greats seem to hit their A game more often in which to me SH was the best for this, but it did not last nowhere near as long as the other two players.

So if JT can stay consistent now with his brother as his coach, he can maybe have some good years ahead he has much talent thats for sure.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Ace

Holden Chinaski wrote:I can't believe there are actually people out there who think Judd played better than prime Hendry, Ronnie, or Higgins. The only explanation is that you haven't watched a lot of snooker.


Well tell me what you think the scorelines would be for the matches lol

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Holden Chinaski

Ace wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:I can't believe there are actually people out there who think Judd played better than prime Hendry, Ronnie, or Higgins. The only explanation is that you haven't watched a lot of snooker.


Well tell me what you think the scorelines would be for the matches lol

What are you on about? "Lol". Go watch some footage of prime Hendry, Ronnie, and Higgins. Just put the PlayStation down for a bit and study the greats.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Ace

Also Holden,

sport evolves and the game passes the players. Nothing wrong in thinking Judd has taken the game to a new level, it's not just me who thinks this as I said, Judd has left everyone stunned and created big media news with his play.

Ronnie should've dominated his own decade of the 2000s but wasn't meant to be I think Judd has taken the game to a new level and the new decade starting next year will all be about him.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Ace

Holden Chinaski wrote:What are you on about? "Lol". Go watch some footage of prime Hendry, Ronnie, and Higgins. Just put the PlayStation down for a bit and study the greats.


If you think they're better than him then give me the scorelines of these matches, otherwise why would you think they're better if you don't have a scoreline in mind?

2019 Judd vs:

2004 Ronnie/ 2013 Ronnie
1993 Hendry
1996 Higgins

I just want to know where everyone stands and how they're thinking

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Holden Chinaski

Ace wrote:Nothing wrong in thinking Judd has taken the game to a new level, .

The only thing wrong with it is that it's NOT TRUE. I wis it was true, it would be amazing to see a player play better snooker than prime Hendry, Ronnie, and Higgins did. I would love that. But I have never seen it.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Cloud Strife

Ace wrote:Ok since everyone thinks Judd's snooker wasn't the best then what would the scorelines be for these matches:

2019 Judd vs:

2004 Ronnie/ 2013 Ronnie
1993 Hendry
1996 Higgins

I just want to know where everyone stands and how they're thinking


2004 Ronnie 18-10 Judd
1993 Hendry 18-12 Judd
1998 Higgins 18-13 Judd

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Holden Chinaski

Ace wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:What are you on about? "Lol". Go watch some footage of prime Hendry, Ronnie, and Higgins. Just put the PlayStation down for a bit and study the greats.


If you think they're better than him then give me the scorelines of these matches, otherwise why would you think they're better if you don't have a scoreline in mind?

2019 Judd vs:

2004 Ronnie/ 2013 Ronnie
1993 Hendry
1996 Higgins

I just want to know where everyone stands and how they're thinking

I don't live in fantasy land. That proves nothing. The proof is on youtube. The proof is on Cuetracker. the proof is on wikipedia. The proof is in the stats and records.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Ace

Holden Chinaski wrote:
Ace wrote:Nothing wrong in thinking Judd has taken the game to a new level, .

The only thing wrong with it is that it's NOT TRUE. I wis it was true, it would be amazing to see a player play better snooker than prime Hendry, Ronnie, and Higgins did. I would love that. But I have never seen it.


Then why is everyone saying it's the best standard there's been? Ronnie himself said it's better than his own game and Hendry's and Higgins, Higgins said he hasn't seen a talent like it, Davis said he wouldn't want to play Judd in the final and never seen such ferocious snooker etc

Are they all lying just because it's about Judd? If it was about Ronnie I bet you wouldn't disagree.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Ace

Cloud Strife wrote:
Ace wrote:Ok since everyone thinks Judd's snooker wasn't the best then what would the scorelines be for these matches:

2019 Judd vs:

2004 Ronnie/ 2013 Ronnie
1993 Hendry
1996 Higgins

I just want to know where everyone stands and how they're thinking


2004 Ronnie 18-10 Judd
1993 Hendry 18-12 Judd
1998 Higgins 18-13 Judd


Now you're just joking, 18-10? Just 2 frames more than Dott? Come on


   

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