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Re: WS International Championship Final Discussion !!!

Postby SnookerFan

Jewell wrote:
Of course it sounds ridiculous when you take it out of context like that. <doh>

But unlike Hendry, Ebdon is still a contender well into his 40s. That's the point I was making. <ok>


I understood your point, and I agree with it. I just saw the irony in what you were saying, was all. <laugh>

Re: WS International Championship Final Discussion !!!

Postby Wildey

Jewell wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:
Jewell wrote:
Yeah, it was very impressive. Ebdon is no Hendry, the guy can still play very well into his 40s so it was very impressive from Judd.


rofl

That's the first time I've heard that comparison been used as a diss to Hendry.


Of course it sounds ridiculous when you take it out of context like that. <doh>

But unlike Hendry, Ebdon is still a contender well into his 40s. That's the point I was making. <ok>

you really are a bucking hammer arent you sonny just ban the c****ng pin end he always bring up hendry without any need the disrespecting horse rubbish bucking pin end

waste of space poster this forum can do without his ilk

Re: WS International Championship Final Discussion !!!

Postby Wildey

Jewell wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:
Jewell wrote:
Yeah, it was very impressive. Ebdon is no Hendry, the guy can still play very well into his 40s so it was very impressive from Judd.


rofl

That's the first time I've heard that comparison been used as a diss to Hendry.


Of course it sounds ridiculous when you take it out of context like that. <doh>

But unlike Hendry, Ebdon is still a contender well into his 40s. That's the point I was making. <ok>

buck off that's not the point you were bucking making

bucking sausage

Re: WS International Championship Final Discussion !!!

Postby SnookerFan

I have the greatest of respect for Hendry, and would never claim Ebdon was anywhere near as good a player as a prime Stephen Hendry.

But Ebdon has remained consistent into his 40s, and can still win trophies. Something Hendry struggled with. That was the point I was agreeing with.

No need to go into one and start getting personal. :spot on:

Re: WS International Championship Final Discussion !!!

Postby Wildey

SnookerFan wrote:
Jewell wrote:
Yeah, it was very impressive. Ebdon is no Hendry, the guy can still play very well into his 40s so it was very impressive from Judd.


rofl

That's the first time I've heard that comparison been used as a diss to Hendry.

Re: WS International Championship Final Discussion !!!

Postby Wildey

SnookerFan wrote:I have the greatest of respect for Hendry, and would never claim Ebdon was anywhere near as good a player as a prime Stephen Hendry.

But Ebdon has remained consistent into his 40s, and can still win trophies. Something Hendry struggled with. That was the point I was agreeing with.

No need to go into one and start getting personal. :spot on:

Dont Give me that bucking rubbish

SnookerFan wrote:
Jewell wrote:
Yeah, it was very impressive. Ebdon is no Hendry, the guy can still play very well into his 40s so it was very impressive from Judd.


rofl

That's the first time I've heard that comparison been used as a diss to Hendry.


you also saw it now backing down bucking wimp

why mention bucking Hendry in the first place ? it had buck all to do with him

the sausage could have left his name out of it and just say Ebdon playing well in to his 40s

Re: WS International Championship Final Discussion !!!

Postby SnookerFan

It was good to see the entire semi-final televised on Saturday and the entire final on Sunday. Eurosport often have very little on the final weekend, and tend to cut away to tennis or motorbiking when they do have it on.

Eurosport really did treat this tournament like a major. :hatoff:

I hope this remains the case next year.

Re: WS International Championship Final Discussion !!!

Postby SnookerFan

Wild WC wrote:
you also saw it now backing down bucking wimp

why mention bucking Hendry in the first place ? it had buck all to do with him

the sausage could have left his name out of it and just say Ebdon playing well in to his 40s


And you could've pointed that out to him without bringing his arranged marriage into this. Would you like other posters bringing your love-life up on here?

I'm not taking sides here. Ebdon is playing well into his 40s. And Hendry is one of the greatest players of all time. The greatest of all time in my opinion. I think we can all agree on both these issues.

Re: WS International Championship Final Discussion !!!

Postby Wildey

SnookerFan wrote:
Wild WC wrote:
you also saw it now backing down bucking wimp

why mention bucking Hendry in the first place ? it had buck all to do with him

the sausage could have left his name out of it and just say Ebdon playing well in to his 40s


And you could've pointed that out to him without bringing his arranged marriage into this. Would you like other posters bringing your love-life up on here?

I'm not taking sides here. Ebdon is playing well into his 40s. And Hendry is one of the greatest players of all time. The greatest of all time in my opinion. I think we can all agree on both these issues.

yea im sorry for that but the sooner this hammer is gone the better cant stand the bucking turd total waste of bucking space.

Re: WS International Championship Final Discussion !!!

Postby SnookerFan

Jewell wrote:
Yeah, I know. I was really surprised about that.

The way the whole event was organised gave it a major event feel to it. The question is, are we now technically calling it the 4th major or do we still need to wait a few years for that?


It depends on what you refer to as a major. Ranking points-wise and prize-money wise it obviously is. But I feel the longer a tournament runs, the more prestigious it becomes. I'm hoping in the next few years it gets embraced as tournament, and does become one of the snooker majors. That's obviously what World Snooker want to happen.

Re: WS International Championship Final Discussion !!!

Postby Wildey

Jewell wrote:
Wild WC wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:I have the greatest of respect for Hendry, and would never claim Ebdon was anywhere near as good a player as a prime Stephen Hendry.

But Ebdon has remained consistent into his 40s, and can still win trophies. Something Hendry struggled with. That was the point I was agreeing with.

No need to go into one and start getting personal. :spot on:

Dont Give me that little kittens playing donkey doo

SnookerFan wrote:
Jewell wrote:
Yeah, it was very impressive. Ebdon is no Hendry, the guy can still play very well into his 40s so it was very impressive from Judd.


rofl

That's the first time I've heard that comparison been used as a diss to Hendry.


you also saw it now backing down little kittens playing wimp

why mention little kittens playing Hendry in the first place ? it had little kitten all to do with him

the giraffe could have left his name out of it and just say Ebdon playing well in to his 40s


This kind of bullying of another member shouldn't be allowed, in my opinion. :no:

We all have our own views and we should be allowed to express them, as long as we are not malicious. <ok>

do i give a buck no i bucking dont your a bastard end of

Re: WS International Championship Final Discussion !!!

Postby Wildey

Jewell wrote:
You're getting boring and tiresome now, so can we please end this? :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:

And I'll continue to mention Hendry, as and when I see fit, so just deal with it. :|

sonny will have to ban me or take away my mod powers in which case then i wont give a buck about this site but while i can and if i feel your posts getting to the point i feel your getting rubbish stirring i will delete every bucking one on threads.

Re: WS International Championship Final Discussion !!!

Postby The Cueist

Andre147 wrote:
The Cueist wrote::D Andre147 ;-) I am talking in the next couple of seasons,The deterioration levels in ROS,HIGGINS and co. Will come about.

Fair point mate <ok> ,I had forgot Higgins had won from a big deficit recently.
I even watched the match on Eurosport :gag:
I am always out grafting at the moment,So busy i am.I have actually forgotten these facts.

Im not knocking these players,I adore watching ROS in full flow,Love the geezer.
Matthew Stevens,Top fella,Wish he would go and win the worlds.
Higgins,A great player,One of the most consistent.
Williams,Loved him to begin with,Then he developed very aggressive mannerisms and got miserable,Still a great player when he puts his mind to it.

Just passage of time and all that.

It is inevitable me old mate.


Ok fair enough mate... Yeah I know that the age factor in Higgins, Ronnie, Williams, Ebdon, Stevens and so on is inevitable as you say... still, mostly the first three I mentioned, have still a lot to give to the game.... maybe 3 or 4 years before they really start to decline.... Ronnie is in that position already in the rankings, but they mean donkey doo as he is the World Champion, but really cant afford to miss to many tourneys.... But yeah sometimes you first need to look at some important facts before making any judgements...

Higgins, above all, still has that fear factor when Trump plays him, that's why he has lost in the Worlds Final and this season's Shanghai Masters one after being 7-2 up... But I'm not criticising Judd... it takes some time to cope with Higgins's excelent match play snooker... I'm sure he will over their next meetings... because losses can teach you how to correct mistakes you made earlier


<ok> Your right,Higgins is a steely and formidable match player and Trump is the future,He will inevitably learn from his past mistakes when playing John,The guy is never beaten.
Quite a feat for a guy who has played at the top for the best part of twenty years or so.

Ronnie,Not so much in that category of fear in Judd's eyes,Similar style of play in my opinion.It will always be on the day between these two.

As for Rankings i am of much the same opinion as yourself mate,They don't apply to the likes of Ronnie,Williams(Has come back from near obscurity before if memory serves me correctly)
I feel Ronnie had his reasons for not journeying too far from home,I know Mark Allen had a few things to say about his absence ,Though he does have a lot to say about a lot of things. ;-)

As a fan of Ronnie and the subliminal way that he plays i was a bit sad to not see him at this tournament,I know this much,I cant wait to see him in action at the UK in December.

I am sure he will be trying his level best to do well.

There is one unavoidable fact,If you dont compete on a regular basis,Then you get rusty.
I play snooker once every month,I struggle to make a twenty or thirty break on a club table and jaw countless blacks that i leave as sitters for my mate Steve to mop up. <doh>

God knows how you go into a match with no recent match practice and beat top 16 players in these tough playing conditions

Question mate?

Is it me not getting the irony when posters on here bang on about rubbish standard,Posters on here who say things like that cannot have a real understanding or idea of how skillful you have to be ,Just to be half good at snooker let alone subliminal.

They cant play the game surely,Else they wouldnt make these ill thought out comments.

I would like to know your opinion on this one,As i know, you know your snooker.

Andre147

Re: WS International Championship Final Discussion !!!

Postby Andre147

I absolutely agree with you The Cueist, people who say rubbish things like "this is a weak era" and so on have absolutely no ideia how diffilcult this game can be, and the irony of it is that the top players, like Ronnie and Judd for instance, make it extremelly easy, which of course we know it's far from it. And all that talk about weak eras is pointless too... one era can, for instance, have a few stronger points than the one before, but the latter can also have stronger departments, namely in the safety play. You just can't compare eras and players from different eras too.

Yeah the lack of match sharpness from Ronnie's perspective definately hinders him... I fear that he will have a similar season like the one he had 2 seasons ago where he coulnd't win a match since December... I honestly hope he proves me wrong and starts playing well again, which won't be an easy task given the amount of match sharpness the other top players have.

Can't wait to see back in action that's for sure. He still brings a lot to the game and it will be a sad day, for me at least, when he Really retires. But, as you know, I'm not one of those obcessed Ronnie fans, far from it, I love watching other players and criticise Ronnie when I think he deserves it. for instance, of course it would also be a sad day if Williams or Higgins retired for some reason. They all bring something to the game in their own way, and that's why I love watching it.

Re: WS International Championship Final Discussion !!!

Postby The Cueist

Thanks for a great reply Andre147 <ok>
I knew there are some on here that talk bollow,They think because they watch snooker and are a fan of a certain player or players,They know it all.

Or are they not mature enough in life to see the reality before there very eyes?

Talk of different era's is irrelevant,Top players only come out on top consistently in any era if they are great exponents of the game of snooker and can only play who they are drawn against.

They didnt win by freak chance or fluke did they.

Pointless arguments I READ ON THIS FORUM ALL TOO OFTEN.

HOPEFULLY SOME OF THESE POSTERS WILL GROW OUT OF IT.

I am not a great fan of Robertson as a snooker player,Nice enough person,Just very longwinded in shot selection process (Mark Selby the same)Which i find frustrating to watch.

I accept they do this without thinking as it is there livelihood,Though they are both tremendous players.

Robertson is a phenominal lomg potter ,Mike Hallet was also as it goes.

Great to watch when on song

I find with Robertson,He pinches a as many frames as he wins outright.
Maybe i miss the point with him,Do i?

Also,Do you think Martin Gould has under performed in a lot of matches as i feel he has a lot of talent and skill at the game which he only displays in short bursts.
I feel if he could concentrate a bit harder he could maybe start winning a tournament or two.

What is your opinions on him mate?

Re: WS International Championship Final Discussion !!!

Postby Andre147

Well... We can say that a lot of players in the game have underperformed or underachieved... I could name several, the ones that I find most obvious are Ryan Day, Jamie Cope, Matthew Stevens, Liang Wenbo Graeme Dott and a few others... Namely the first two, both have reached ranking finals, and have bags of talent, but somehow cant cross the winning line when the pressure is truly on.... Before Mark Allen won the World Open last season, I also put him in that same category of those 2 players... Wenbo another evident case of having loads of talent, which somehow has been "wasted" in recent months... Matthew Stevens and Graeme Dott are slightly diferent, but for me both should also have won more by now... especially Stevens... in the end of 90s, early 2000s, he was definately a top 10 or even top 5 player, but he has also had that problem when playing deciders or when, in a very stubburn way, refusing to use the rest on certain shots...

Martin Gould could also fit in a category similar to the one of Day and Cope, although he is yet to reach a ranking tourney final... And I only named players who are still active on the main tour... of course, I could name others like Hallet as you say, Neil Foulds, Willie Thorne and many others...

Still, amazing players in their own right, but never quite managed to reach that spotlight some of us anticipated... of course, the active ones still have a lot to give to the game, so I hope that at least one of them if not more can win more titles, or, in some cases, their first title. (Only considering major ranking titles and Masters for instance, not couting ptcs, as I know Gould as won one of them already).

Re: WS International Championship Final Discussion !!!

Postby Andre147

In the end, all this talk about players who have underachieved is also subjective and depends on the perspective... if we want to be brutally honest, Ronnie for instancve should also have won a lot more given his natural talent, but he hasn't.

At the end of the day, the "ifs" or "should's" are irrelevant... we just have to take things as they come, and appreciate the players we like, even if they have won more titles or not.

Re: WS International Championship Final Discussion !!!

Postby The Cueist

Like your knowledgeable answer,Spot on again mate.
Nice to talk with someone that really knows there stuff.

Ronnie should have totally dominated the Major tournaments with his amazing talent for the game,Just had extreme outside pressures that wiped out his need for calm that was no fault of his own.
A victim of circumstances beyond his control,And as younger man i got the impression he was some what tortured soul who beat himself up and got emotional at times,And for good reason.
God knows what some people were doing to press his buttons.

Ronnie for me is the greatest player i have ever seen or will see in my lifetime,Hendry was the most consistent in his younger days of snooker domination.Nothing to do with era mind you./Just a sharp guy playing excellent pot and position to the mm snooker.Nobody can odds Hendry for being such a sharp shooter.

Overall Ronnie coped better i feel with the emerging players than Hendry ever did ,You know like for like in terms of duration of career.

And is still taming them now.Not all the time mind you.Competition and difficulty of tables sees to that.
The only person who ever beat him 7 times out of ten was himself in his younger days.

Allen,Great player,.Met him,Nice bloke.

Ryan Day,Class but chokes.

Remember Anthony Hamilton,Great guy,Couldnt quite turn on the magic past a quarter final.Shame

As you say we have to accept what the players we like have achieved not what they should have achieved,What will be will be.

Cant argue with you there mate.Once again a pleasure to speak. <ok>

Re: WS International Championship Final Discussion !!!

Postby GrumpyMrDavros

I'll tell you how Ronnie coped with emerging players - they weren't that good

Hendry had to cope with O'Sullivan , Higgins , Doherty , Hunter , Ebdon , Stevens , Lee and Williams an absolute golden age of talent in depth who'd beat anyone on their day and most of them still could

The strength isn't there anymore with massive underachievers like McGuire , Ding , Murphy and Selby . One wonders that it's not impossible for Higgins to beat Hendry's record of 7 WC titles such is the poor quality of today's players

Re: WS International Championship Final Discussion !!!

Postby SnookerFan

GrumpyMrDavros wrote:I'll tell you how Ronnie coped with emerging players - they weren't that good

Hendry had to cope with O'Sullivan , Higgins , Doherty , Hunter , Ebdon , Stevens , Lee and Williams an absolute golden age of talent in depth who'd beat anyone on their day and most of them still could

The strength isn't there anymore with massive underachievers like McGuire , Ding , Murphy and Selby . One wonders that it's not impossible for Higgins to beat Hendry's record of 7 WC titles such is the poor quality of today's players


Underachievers? <doh> Murphy is a World and UK Champion, Selby won the Masters twice and was World Number 1, Ding is a two-time UK Champ and a Masters champion.

I notice you neglected to mention players like Neil Robertson and Judd Trump.

Is it the talent isn't there any more? Or is it that there's so much talent round, it's more difficult to be a consistent ranking event winner as you have to be on the top of your game from the get go?

Re: WS International Championship Final Discussion !!!

Postby GrumpyMrDavros

Number of ranking tournies won by Murphy in 7 years - Four
Number of ranking tournies won by Mark Selby 6 years - Two ( Stop laughing it's true )
Number of ranking tournies won by Ding in 7 years - Five ( Stop sniggering at the back )
Number of ranking tournies won by Steven " on fire " Mcguire in 8 years - Four ( No need to phone the fire brigade )

It says a lot when Stephen Lee and Peter Ebdon are still contenders . Mark Williams dropped out of the provisional 32 a few years ago and he's still ranked top 10

And Robbo and Trump are the best of a very sorry bunch

Re: WS International Championship Final Discussion !!!

Postby The Cueist

Cobblers Jewel >-(

Ronnie has took on all comers and struggled with people like Joe perry,The Hendry v Ronnie coping comparisin does not stack up.

He coped with the same players as Hendry did and the next generation of Murphy, Ding,Selby and Robertson ,Carter and the unmimicable tactics of Ebdon.

Go and learn some stuff son.

Re: WS International Championship Final Discussion !!!

Postby Andre147

Agree... Saying Ronnie had to face easier opponents than Hendry is complete bulls***... Every player has to face some tough opponents at one time or another... it's inevitable... the only difference is some players cope with it better than others... Hendry was probably the one who coped with it better, but even that doesn't change the fact that sometimes players have to work very hard to beat their opponents, as these are not mere walkovers as some people claim. The competitive level has changed though down the yares, and the only difference is that, comparing 90s and 2000s for instance, more players are capable of beating the top ones, whereas in the 90s there were fewer players who could match them...

Even so, that doesn't mean it's a weaker era, far from it


   

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