Post a reply

Re: Free Ball

Postby mslscorpion

Deewee wrote:1. you can't be partially snookered according to rules, if you can't hit both sides, it's a snooker and a foul
2. if the yellow is the closest ball to the white, it is a foul.


For second point, if brown is the closest ball to the white, then it is not a foul. Is that right?

Re: Free Ball

Postby Tim Dunkley

12. Snookered After a Foul
After a foul, if the cue-ball is snookered (see Section 2, Rule 17), the referee shall state FREE BALL.
(a) If the player next in turn elects to play the next stroke:
(i) he may nominate any ball as the ball on, but a free ball cannot be the ball on;
(ii) any nominated ball shall be regarded as, and acquire the value of, the ball on except that, if potted, it shall then be spotted.

Tim

Re: Free Ball

Postby mslscorpion

Deewee wrote:That's right.


Thank you Deewee.

Re: Free Ball

Postby mslscorpion

Tim Dunkley wrote:12. Snookered After a Foul
After a foul, if the cue-ball is snookered (see Section 2, Rule 17), the referee shall state FREE BALL.
(a) If the player next in turn elects to play the next stroke:
(i) he may nominate any ball as the ball on, but a free ball cannot be the ball on;
(ii) any nominated ball shall be regarded as, and acquire the value of, the ball on except that, if potted, it shall then be spotted.

Tim


If my reading comprehension is right, then it means that I am entitled for foul points 4 not 7, as Badsnookerplayer had rightly suggested earlier.

Thank you Tim for pulling this rule out!

Re: Free Ball

Postby acesinc

mslscorpion wrote:
Badsnookerplayer wrote:
mslscorpion wrote:My opponent opted for free ball black when reds were on. He potted the black and fouled (in off). Now I get foul points 4 or 7? My opponent claims I get 4 points as black was played as a red. But I think I should get 7 points as he did in off with black.

Please throw some light on this rule.

The black is treated as a red and you would be entitled to four points to the best of my knowledge


Oh really :? ! I tried to figure out from WPBSA rule book, but it is like an ocean, could not locate the relevant line :(.

@ACESINC - Are you able to help on this one please?



Hi MLScorpion,

I'm a little late to this party. Sorry for the delay. With Black nominated as the Free Ball, it acquires the value of the ball that it is replacing. That applies whether the Free Ball is potted or whether the Free Ball is fouled. So in your scenario, Free Ball Black replaced Red so it would have value of 1 if potted and a penalty of 4 if fouled. Sorry, your opponent was correct in this case. I hope the wager wasn't too large. ;-)

The relevant Rule is Section 3., Rule 12 (a)(ii):

"12. Snookered After a Foul

After a foul, if the cue-ball is snookered (see Section 2, Rule 17), the referee
shall state FREE BALL.

(a) If the player next in turn elects to play the next stroke:
(i) he may nominate any ball as the ball on, but a free ball cannot be the ball on;
(ii) any nominated ball shall be regarded as, and acquire the value of, the ball on except that, if potted, it shall then be spotted."

Something that one must keep in mind when reading the Rules of Snooker is that it is minimalist in the language that is used. Every word is very precisely chosen and has a precise meaning. Exceptions are specifically noted as you read above "...except that, if potted, it shall then be spotted." because if it didn't say precisely that, then that would imply that after potting the Free Ball Black, it would remain in the pocket, just like a Red does. So in order for your desire to be true, the Rule would have needed to precisely read, "...any nominated ball shall be regarded as, and acquire the value of, the ball on except that if fouled, the nominated Free Ball shall retain the penalty value of its original colour and except that, if potted, it shall then be spotted." It does not say that.

So the answer is in there, it just requires proper interpretation.

Re: Free Ball

Postby acesinc

rofl


Boy am I a dummy!!

I found that unanswered question at the end of Page 1....and I had not even looked to see that there was already a Page 2 that answered the question long ago!

:emb:

Re: Free Ball

Postby Andre147

Emran_mak wrote:What is the panalty for giving snooker behind freeball chosen?


Depends on the value of the ball on...

In the case of reds, yellow, green and brown, penalty 4 points, blue is 5. With only pink and black left, you can snooker behind pink if there's a free ball.

Re: Free Ball

Postby acesinc

Andre147 wrote:
Emran_mak wrote:What is the panalty for giving snooker behind freeball chosen?


Depends on the value of the ball on...

In the case of reds, yellow, green and brown, penalty 4 points, blue is 5. With only pink and black left, you can snooker behind pink if there's a free ball.


Andre, your answer is true and accurate and I know that you understand the Rule exactly, but the problem I have found is that most players are not very well in tune with the way the Rules are written, terminology used, etc. So I would add to your answer a bit to be a little more clear for Emran...

The important thing to understand to interpret this rule correctly is the meaning of the term "ball on". A characteristic of Free Ball is that the Free Ball shall "acquire the value of the ball on" and this is important to understand clearly for Emran's question. Section 3., 10. (a) says the penalty for Emran's situation is a minimum of four points or the "value of the ball on". As you implied with your answer Andre, this means that if a player were to lay a snooker behind the nominated Free Ball, the penalty will nearly always be just four points, but very, very rarely it might be five points, and also of note, this can NEVER result in a six or seven point penalty, even when the nominated Free Ball is Pink or Black.

Easiest to explain this with an example....

Final Red is on table, the striker fouls by failure to contact and leaves the Red snookered, so a Free Ball situation. The incoming striker is not very knowledgeable of the Rules so he nominates Free Ball Black and just touches it rolling up behind it, effectively snookering behind the Free Ball. FOUL, the penalty is four points because that is the minimum penalty value and the Ball On at the foul stroke was Red and Black had acquired the value of Red. So this is NOT a seven point penalty. Similarly, if Black is nominated as Free Ball and the striker miscues and does not contact Black at all, again, Foul, four points away.

The only time this particular foul can result in a five point penalty would be when only Blue-Pink-Black remain. Say Blue is fouled and table position leaves Free Ball. Incoming striker nominates Pink and rolls up behind it leaving Blue snookered. Foul, FIVE points away because Blue was the Ball On and Pink had acquired a value of five for that particular stroke. This would obviously be a very rare circumstance indeed.

Following all of the logic, it is not possible for this "snookered behind the Free Ball" foul to result in six or seven points because, as Andre stated, if Pink and Black are the only balls on the table, then it is a fair stroke to snooker behind the Free Ball (which, logically, can only be the Black ball).

I think the examples make this easiest to understand. Sorry to be pedantic here but with the answer, "Depends on the value of the ball on...", then this may be misinterpreted by an otherwise intelligent player because the player may think, "He played at Pink as Free Ball and Pink has a value of six so he should be giving me six points for the penalty" and of course, that would be wrong.


   

cron