Pink Ball wrote:
My opponent - a fair minded chap - played his shot on the pink which he missed using the rest. After the balls had stopped, he removed the rest and touched the brown ball. He queried whether it was a six point or four point foul. I - a fair minded chap - was not sure, and so settled for four points. Was I correct?
Pink ball knows his stuff. Stroke is not complete until satisfying Section 2., Rule 6., (c), (iii) (among the other requirements):
"...any equipment being used by the striker has been removed from a hazardous position"
And if anyone wishes to postulate that it was a simple accident, rest was removed from the table and subsequently dropped then touching the ball so it didn't occur on the actual stroke of the Pink, doesn't matter. ANYTIME a player is holding the rest hovering over the table, it is considered to be a "hazardous position". The only time this would be a four point foul would be if the Referee (or opponent in your case) determined that the Pink was potted and replaced to spot, the break score was called, and the rest was successfully removed from play, but then the player decided to use the rest again for the next stroke and touched a low value ball for foul at that time. Professionally, the stroke is not complete until the Referee verbally calls the break score and he is not going to do that until the striker removes the rest from play (unless it is clear and obvious that the player is simply leaving rest in place because he will be playing White from a virtual identical position).
Player, you were generous in rebating two points back to your opponent.
eraserhead wrote:I had a similar thing happen at the weekend. I potted a red and the blue was behind the yellow, green and brown. I didn't nominate a colour, but I was clearly looking at the blue. As I got the rest out I touched a red. Should it have been four points or five?
For Eraserhead, it really just depends on the situation, but by the sound of it, probably five away. In a refereed match, the Referee would determine to his own satisfaction whether you had truly nominated the Blue (a nomination need not be verbal; the Referee may determine your nomination simply from your actions and body language)....it just depends on the lie of the balls. If Blue was the clear and obvious choice, then he would likely consider your "clearly looking" as a sufficient nomination. However, if the lie of the balls allowed for other possible choices, perhaps the Baulk colours, and your words/actions were not sufficient to clearly nominate
the Blue, then the Ref would actually have no choice but to award not four, not five, but in fact SEVEN away. This is the penalty when a foul occurs without or before colour nomination even if the Black ball is in a different zip code than where the action is (sorry....an Americanism). So the correct answer is five away....or seven away.
So assuming you had no referee for this frame, honesty is the best policy..."I was going to play Blue, five away", or "I hadn't actually made up my mind for colour; properly, that is seven away."