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Re: International Championship Final Discussion !!

Postby Andre147

This victory also puts Ding level on ranking victories with legends Peter Ebdon and John Parrot, just 1 short of Jimmy White's 10 ranking titles. In this sort of form and still only 26 he can add to those I'm sure.

Re: International Championship Final Discussion !!

Postby Wildey

Snooker Overdrive wrote:Great achievement for Ding but I learned from my years of watching this game that every time someone looked like dominating another player came along and ended that spell of domination. Selby, Trump are recent examples.

but Ding now up to 9 ranking event wins

hes gone from 5 wins to 9 wins in 8 months that is the closest anyone in recent years has got to dominating.

Re: International Championship Final Discussion !!

Postby Snooker Overdrive

Wildey wrote:
Snooker Overdrive wrote:Great achievement for Ding but I learned from my years of watching this game that every time someone looked like dominating another player came along and ended that spell of domination. Selby, Trump are recent examples.

but Ding now up to 9 ranking event wins

hes gone from 5 wins to 9 wins in 8 months that is the closest anyone in recent years has got to dominating.


All that is very impressive but the real tests are yet to come.

Re: International Championship Final Discussion !!

Postby TheRocket

Well done Ding. Its really impressive that he somehow always pulls off a high break of 90+ in final (crucial) frames when the pressure is at his highest. I must say, in terms of breakbuilding he's probably at the same level as John Higgins in his best times. At least he is very very close. Only Stephen Hendry and Ronnie O'Sullivan are (still) above him in this department.

The time has come for Ding Junhui to win the World Championship. He's a complete player now and as good as ever. He's ready to win it and I think that Ding will end as an Alltime Great. He has so much more talent than the others and he is only 26.

Re: International Championship Final Discussion !!

Postby Andre147

Snooker Overdrive wrote:
Wildey wrote:
Snooker Overdrive wrote:Great achievement for Ding but I learned from my years of watching this game that every time someone looked like dominating another player came along and ended that spell of domination. Selby, Trump are recent examples.

but Ding now up to 9 ranking event wins

hes gone from 5 wins to 9 wins in 8 months that is the closest anyone in recent years has got to dominating.


All that is very impressive but the real tests are yet to come.


If he can win 1 or 2 more ranking titles at least this season then we can safely say that he dominated this season, otherwise he "just" dominated in a short period of time spanning 2 or 3 months. But Wild makes a fair point in saying that in 2013 he has won 4 ranking titles, can't remember the last player who won 4 rankers on the same year spanning 2 seasons.

Re: International Championship Final Discussion !!

Postby Andre147

TheRocket wrote:Well done Ding. Its really impressive that he somehow always pulls off a high break of 90+ in final (crucial) frames when the pressure is at his highest. I must say, in terms of breakbuilding he's probably at the same level as John Higgins in his best times. At least he is very very close. Only Stephen Hendry and Ronnie O'Sullivan are (still) above him in this department.

The time has come for Ding Junhui to win the World Championship. He's a complete player now and as good as ever. He's ready to win it and I think that Ding will end as an Alltime Great. He has so much more talent than the others and he is only 26.


Yeah his young age is an advantage over players like Robbo and Selby for instance, Robbo especially who is close on 8 rankers. The Worlds is the only thing left really, but with only 1 semi final there it'll be interesting how he will cope with it this season. I would like to say its not a matter of "If" but rather "When" he will win the Worlds, but at this moment I can't really say it yet. I do hope he wins it, but could end his career not winning the Worlds, which would be a great shame really.

Re: International Championship Final Discussion !!

Postby TheRocket

Fully agree. Would be the biggest shame in Snooker since the six hurtful final defeats of the Whirlwind.
Ding's ability and strength should make him a multiple champion. If he manages it to win his first World in 2014 , or 2015 at the latest, he has enough time to win his second and then even his third title. The first title is always the biggest hurdle.

The relief, if you overcome it, is enormous. Ronnie and Higgins managed it to win three World titles in their 30's. Don't see why Ding shouldn't manage it to win at least one title in his 30's.

If he wins the World at least two times, he will be an Alltime Great for me.

Re: International Championship Final Discussion !!

Postby Andre147

Yeah Ding is becoming better with age and as he approaches his 30s he is becoming more and more a player very similar to Higgins in his prime. Great scoring and safety play, plus his temperament now is better than ever as he doesn't let his head down when things aren't going his way like he used to in the past, understandbly cause he was younger. He learned a lot from that agonizing defeat the Masters against Ronnie in 2007.

Ding is definately a player capable of winning multiple world titles, doing it though is an entirely different matter.

Re: International Championship Final Discussion !!

Postby oldgreenbaize

Hi everyone, I'm Nigel from The Old Green Baize snooker website, hope you all enjoyed a thrilling final.

Just sharing out my report for you to have a look at if you would like to.

Was a great final and it will be interesting to see if Ding can continue his success in England in the coming weeks. I'd say he is the best on the planet at the moment.

Loads of big events coming up, good time to be a snooker fan atm isn't it?

Anyway, below is the link - enjoy what's left of the weekend.

http://theoldgreenbaize.com/2013/11/03/ ... ing-final/

All the best,
Nigel

Re: International Championship Final Discussion !!

Postby Wildey

i think its important to note winning a Major is one tournament Joe Johnson and Dennis Taylor managed a World Title. personally id prefer to have won Many Many tournaments like Ding is doing rather than having a 2 week purple Patch and become World Champion.

Re: International Championship Final Discussion !!

Postby SteveJJ

It also puts Ding WN1 on the provisional end of season money list.

Is he a better player now than he was when he first broke through on to the scene (up until his disintegration against Ronnie at the Masters)

Re: International Championship Final Discussion !!

Postby Snooker Overdrive

Wildey wrote:i think its important to note winning a Major is one tournament Joe Johnson and Dennis Taylor managed a World Title. personally id prefer to have won Many Many tournaments like Ding is doing rather than having a 2 week purple Patch and become World Champion.


I disagree. I think you said it yourself a couple of days ago, nowadays there are a LOT more tournaments than only 6 years ago and therefore it's not as difficult to win more than 1 tournament. The 3 majors have always been there. All time greats should be judged by their wins of the big 3. Otherwise the players who peaked in their 00s would be deprived as they had less tournaments available.

Also: your post has a certain undertone trying to undermine Ronnie's achievements in the last 2 years :john:

Re: International Championship Final Discussion !!

Postby Wildey

nothing at all to do with Ronnie yes becoming World Champion is special however now Ding has put himself in a position that if he Wins the World title it puts him on a different level to someone playing well for 2 weeks. hes played well all season that what makes a player great not just winning a World Title.

Re: International Championship Final Discussion !!

Postby Andre147

Wildey wrote:nothing at all to do with Ronnie yes becoming World Champion is special however now Ding has put himself in a position that if he Wins the World title it puts him on a different level to someone playing well for 2 weeks. hes played well all season that what makes a player great not just winning a World Title.


Yeah I understand Wild's point, even if Ding doesn't become World Champion he's a much better player than Taylor or Johnson for instance who have won it, he's even better than Murphy who also won it plus a couple more tourneys. Of course if he becomes World Champion plus winning all these tournaments he has it puts him on the all time greats for me. It's the only thing missing really.

Re: International Championship Final Discussion !!

Postby Skullman

Unfortunately I've missed the entirety of the event from the semis onwards. I managed to sneak a few peeks at the live scoring and last time I checked Marco was 9-8 up. What happened then? Also, can anyone tell me what the state of the British Eurosport coverage was like, so I tell how much of the final Sky+ recorded.

Also, well done Ding (although I wanted Marco to win), he's a machine at the moment, but it'll be interesting how he does later on in the season. I'm sceptical that can he maintain his great form from now until May. Also, one thing to note. The last person to win three rankers on the spin in the same season was Hendry, and despite his great run, he fell short at the Crucible later that season. I'm not saying it'll happen to Ding, but something to keep in mind...

Re: International Championship Final Discussion !!

Postby Snooker Overdrive

Ding career path so far is leading towards the All Time Great status. But he needs a couple of more things to get there.

1) Becoming World No.1 - Shouldn't really be a problem
2) At least a couple of more ranking wins - easy
3) Winning the World Title at least 2 times - That's the tricky part

Another candidate for a new all time great is Neil Robertson. If he wins the Worlds again and the UK at least once in the next couple of years he should be regarded as an all time great.

Re: International Championship Final Discussion !!

Postby Skullman

Selby's up there in terms of majors (4) and really only needs a Worlds to be put into consideration, although I think he needs to bulk up his number of ordinary rankers as well.

Re: International Championship Final Discussion !!

Postby Snooker Overdrive

Skullman wrote:Selby's up there in terms of majors (4) and really only needs a Worlds to be put into consideration, although I think he needs to bulk up his number of ordinary rankers as well.


Correct. I consider the following players all time greats (of the modern era) right now:

- Stephen Hendry
- Steve Davis
- Ronnie O'Sullivan
- John Higgins
- Mark Williams
- Ray Readon
- Peter Ebdon
- Alex Higgins

Ding and Robertson currently have the best chances of joining that list next.

Re: International Championship Final Discussion !!

Postby Snooker Overdrive

Skullman wrote:Unfortunately I've missed the entirety of the event from the semis onwards. I managed to sneak a few peeks at the live scoring and last time I checked Marco was 9-8 up. What happened then? Also, can anyone tell me what the state of the British Eurosport coverage was like, so I tell how much of the final Sky+ recorded.


Fu had the first chance in the 18th frame but he went in off after potting the pink. Ding dished up and in the decider he won the safety battle and scored a 80+ break.

Skullman wrote:Also, well done Ding (although I wanted Marco to win), he's a machine at the moment, but it'll be interesting how he does later on in the season. I'm sceptical that can he maintain his great form from now until May. Also, one thing to note. The last person to win three rankers on the spin in the same season was Hendry, and despite his great run, he fell short at the Crucible later that season. I'm not saying it'll happen to Ding, but something to keep in mind...


I also don't think Ding will dominate now and win most of the tournaments. There are just too many good players out there who are also unstoppable on their day. And remember he could have lost to Fu today.

That Hendry comparison is indeed interesting <ok>

Re: International Championship Final Discussion !!

Postby Andre147

Snooker Overdrive wrote:Jimmy White is unfortunately not an all time great. He needed at least one World Title.

John Spencer: he has the achievements but I have to admit - I never really heard of him. There must be a reason why the (BBC) pundits never seem to mention him.


:chuckle: Sory SO but Jimmy is and will always be an all time great, yes he didn't win the Worlds, but fell short 6 times, 4 of them to the greatest ever, plus he too like Alex Higgins and Ronnie helped the growing interest in snooker massively.

John Spencer... well.. it was a different era, but I too think he can be considered an all time great of snooker.

Re: International Championship Final Discussion !!

Postby Skullman

John Spencer was early modern era, like Reardon was, and has three World titles, which is more than MJW and Alex Higgins. He was just unfortunate, like Reardon, that by the time there were other ranking tournaments, he was just a bit too old, although he did win the inaugural Masters, beating Ray Reardon on a respotted black.

Re: International Championship Final Discussion !!

Postby Snooker Overdrive

Andre147 PGC wrote:
Snooker Overdrive wrote:Jimmy White is unfortunately not an all time great. He needed at least one World Title.

John Spencer: he has the achievements but I have to admit - I never really heard of him. There must be a reason why the (BBC) pundits never seem to mention him.


:chuckle: Sory SO but Jimmy is and will always be an all time great, yes he didn't win the Worlds, but fell short 6 times, 4 of them to the greatest ever, plus he too like Alex Higgins and Ronnie helped the growing interest in snooker massively.

John Spencer... well.. it was a different era, but I too think he can be considered an all time great of snooker.


Everybody sees these things a little different and in my book Jimmy isn't. But it's not like I'm right and you're wrong - it's just a matter of opinion in this case.

But of course I agree that he was a terrific player who played a big part in promoting the game.

Re: International Championship Final Discussion !!

Postby Roland

That was one of the best matches I've ever seen. Ding would doubtless have made more centuries if he wasn't playing such a determined opponent in Fu. The last 2 frames won by Ding were just awe inspiring. Given the frame Fu won for 9-8 lasted more than an hour, for Ding to make the break he made in the next frame using just the blue and requiring several in and out of baulk recoveries, and each time landing just off ideal angle on the next red to leave it awkward, that was one of the best breaks I've ever seen in the circumstances. And then he goes and makes a 90 odd in the decider, again with a few challenges along the way requiring some massive balls to overcome. It was quite simply phenomenal. And all credit to Fu for his part in the final and sportsmanship at the end. I said it would be a high quality match didn't I? But wow, what a standard from start to finish.

Re: International Championship Final Discussion !!

Postby Wildey

Dannyboy wrote:What is Stephen Hendry's record for prize money won in a season?

Ding has won £257,000 in 6 weeks!

something between £750,000 a £800,000..

Exact figure escapes me.

Re: International Championship Final Discussion !!

Postby Andre147

Sonny wrote:That was one of the best matches I've ever seen. Ding would doubtless have made more centuries if he wasn't playing such a determined opponent in Fu. The last 2 frames won by Ding were just awe inspiring. Given the frame Fu won for 9-8 lasted more than an hour, for Ding to make the break he made in the next frame using just the blue and requiring several in and out of baulk recoveries, and each time landing just off ideal angle on the next red to leave it awkward, that was one of the best breaks I've ever seen in the circumstances. And then he goes and makes a 90 odd in the decider, again with a few challenges along the way requiring some massive balls to overcome. It was quite simply phenomenal. And all credit to Fu for his part in the final and sportsmanship at the end. I said it would be a high quality match didn't I? But wow, what a standard from start to finish.


Yeah, one of the best I've watched too, it seems the finals of rankers in China are becoming all time great classic finals, like the one between Judd and Higgins at the Shanghai Masters last season for instance.

It had everything, the only thing missing was maybe a 147 which Fu had the chance, but didn't quite make it, but maybe that's asking a bit too much cause even without it it was a classic final.

Would have loved if Ding equaled or even surpassed Hendry's record of tons in a single match, those 2 90 plus breaks from him could have easily been tons and by now he would have had 7, but anyway.. this just shows us what a terrific performance from Hendry that was in the 1994 UK final, in the 10 frames he won, 7 were tons :hatoff: Nevertheless, Ding played superbly and is without doubt the man of the season, the man of the year for that matter :bowdown: Just amazing.

Re: International Championship Final Discussion !!

Postby Wildey

Hardly saw any of the match so cant really comment on it but i was keeping tabs on the score and When Marco Fu went 9-8 up having Ding make 5 tons that was an Amazing performance to take the last 2 frames from Ding he could have easily thought its not my day.

and there's nothing at all to suggest Ding wont win the UK Championship in December hes done that twice before.