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Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Final Weekend Discussion

Postby Roland

Jewell wrote:Regarding this incident, I would have to disagree with you, Sonny.

Playing on for 6 snookers was ridiculous, as many others have noted. The chances of winning from that position are 1 in 10000, even for someone like Selby.

Deep down I suspect Selby too knew he had no chance of winning, but because of his will to win he sometimes refuses to let go and therefore carries on for outrageous amounts of snookers.

I did feel kind of bad for Bingham at the time because his initial moment of glory got taken away from him.


That's fair enough, it's your opinion. What I objected to was that it was somehow bad sportsmanship because it wasn't. It didn't detract from Bingham's moment of glory at all. All he had to do was pot one ball and the handshake would come, which it did after he escaped a couple of snookers. I doubt Bingham gave a rubbish like most others.

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Final Weekend Discussion

Postby TheRocket

Jewell wrote:Regarding this incident, I would have to disagree with you, Sonny.

Playing on for 6 snookers was ridiculous, as many others have noted. The chances of winning from that position are 1 in 10000, even for someone like Selby.

Deep down I suspect Selby too knew he had no chance of winning, but because of his will to win he sometimes refuses to let go and therefore carries on for outrageous amounts of snookers.

I did feel kind of bad for Bingham at the time because his initial moment of glory got taken away from him.


No doubt that it was rubbish for Bingham.

But do you remember that match against Robertson (China Open Final)? He was in the same position and he managed it to cause 4 or 5 Robertson fouls and needed only one Snooker at one point. As we know, Robertson still managed it to reach the line at the end but nevertheless it was really tight. I also remember how he won a frame like that against Hendry at the World Championship.

When it comes to the last frame , the guy is just fighting till the end, no matter how desperate the situation seems to be. Can't be miffed about it even though I don't like it.

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Final Weekend Discussion

Postby Roland

Witz78 wrote:
Sonny wrote:Are you Witz in disguise?


haha whats that meant to mean ?

My initial thoughts when Selby was playing on for 6 snookers were of Robidoux v Ronnie.


The proposed tournament scheduling of the above poster.

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Final Weekend Discussion

Postby Roland

Regarding the playing on for snookers when you're about to lose, I don't see the issue. Nearly all the players do it, and if there are that many to get then the player about to win won't care in the slightest. I know if I was 100 up with 27 on and the player carried on I wouldn't care. The only time it annoys me is when I'm reffing a league match or are waiting to play.

Funny story actually, once when I was in my first season of local league, my opponent needed 4 snookers on the pink. I played 2 deliberate fouls as a snake hiss take only for him to get the two remaining snookers and clear up. Lesson learned :redneck:

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Final Weekend Discussion

Postby Roland

Nothing mate, I was just messing. Witz used to post loads of alternative tournament schedules or ranking systems with clearly a lot of thought gone into them but which ultimately wouldn't get noticed. As for yours, 7am starts won't happen in snooker. They only happen on the first 2 days of The Open golf to my knowledge. It's just too early. As it is 9:30am starts is plenty early enough for most people.

When you're cramming in 2 or more session matches in 13 days in 128 format though, the players won't like it, the organisers won't like it, the public won't like it, the referees won't like it. It's a non-starter in fairness.

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Final Weekend Discussion

Postby TheRocket

Jewell wrote:
TheRocket wrote:
Jewell wrote:Regarding this incident, I would have to disagree with you, Sonny.

Playing on for 6 snookers was ridiculous, as many others have noted. The chances of winning from that position are 1 in 10000, even for someone like Selby.

Deep down I suspect Selby too knew he had no chance of winning, but because of his will to win he sometimes refuses to let go and therefore carries on for outrageous amounts of snookers.

I did feel kind of bad for Bingham at the time because his initial moment of glory got taken away from him.


No doubt that it was donkey doo for Bingham.

But do you remember that match against Robertson (China Open Final)? He was in the same position and he managed it to cause 4 or 5 Robertson fouls and needed only one Snooker at one point. As we know, Robertson still managed it to reach the line at the end but nevertheless it was really tight. I also remember how he won a frame like that against Hendry at the World Championship.

When it comes to the last frame , the guy is just fighting till the end, no matter how desperate the situation seems to be. Can't be miffed about it even though I don't like it.


Look, it's upto Selby how he plays and nobody can have a go at him for that. Like you, I don't like it, but that's how it goes.

Also, the Hendry one when he managed to successfully get the 5 snookers required was one of the funniest things I've seen in snooker. Hendry's face throughout that exchange was priceless. If looks could kill... rofl


Yeah, Hendry was already completely outplayed in that match and the last frame was like a real stroke into his face. When they shook hands, Hendry was like "you're little blue frog".

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Final Weekend Discussion

Postby snooker loopy

Sonny wrote:Nothing mate, I was just messing. Witz used to post loads of alternative tournament schedules or ranking systems with clearly a lot of thought gone into them but which ultimately wouldn't get noticed. As for yours, 7am starts won't happen in snooker. They only happen on the first 2 days of The Open golf to my knowledge. It's just too early. As it is 9:30am starts is plenty early enough for most people.

When you're cramming in 2 or more session matches in 13 days in 128 format though, the players won't like it, the organisers won't like it, the public won't like it, the referees won't like it. It's a non-starter in fairness.


Of course I'm aware nobody gives a rubbish and Barry Hearn is highly unlikely (on the scale of winning the lottery to me being able to have sex with Karen Gillan it's nearer the second (i.e nearly impossible)) to be reading snooker island going "actually I'll do that for the UK" but the idea is the 7am starters get the earlier night that day, you're just moving those players days back a bit, and no-one's saying the first 6 matches have to be public, although I actually like the idea of being able to watch snooker before work, but that's just me. The player's for most of the early tournament get a few days between matches and you can get more referees. Maybe tweaking it to make the Last 64's Best of 11 and the latter stages (Last 32 onwards) Best of 19 could work and reduce the session load a bit.

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Final Weekend Discussion

Postby Roland

Again the point with that is that yes he dominated the session and had a healthy enough lead anyway, but it was the last frame of the day in that 3 session match, I think it was last frame of the afternoon session with evening play not due to start for another hour. They're at the Crucible theatre with a packed house watching on, live on BBC2 and Selby produced a moment of drama people are still talking about. Yet he needed more snookers than most would've bothered with.

Another one I remember is Judd against Carter at the Crucible in the last frame. Judd needed a few then didn't he? And he fell short by one, missing a golden chance to lay a pearler as well.

I admit I do enjoy watching Selby play on for snookers because I learn something by watching how he goes about it, his table craft. The other thing is that if he gets the first and second, the other player starts to have doubts and that's what it's all about, once that happens then anything is possible.

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Final Weekend Discussion

Postby Roland

@snookerloopy I think the main point is that you're asking the eventual finalists of the event to play a hell of a lot of match snooker in a short space of time. I mean the Crucible is over 17 days and it starts from the last 32 and that's plenty draining enough for even the Ebdon stamina players. Imagine 4 fewer days and 96 more matches and you see why it couldn't work.

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Final Weekend Discussion

Postby snooker loopy

Sonny wrote:@snookerloopy I think the main point is that you're asking the eventual finalists of the event to play a hell of a lot of match snooker in a short space of time. I mean the Crucible is over 17 days and it starts from the last 32 and that's plenty draining enough for even the Ebdon stamina players. Imagine 4 fewer days and 96 more matches and you see why it couldn't work.


Surely that means only the very very best of the game could rise through it. Yes it's a demanding schedule but that would be the draw of the tournament, ensuring it isn't just another 128 Best of 11fest. It needs an elevated status.

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Final Weekend Discussion

Postby Roland

snooker loopy wrote:Here's a ridiculous example of Selby playing on
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fja5_pF1bo

He needs 13...


<laugh>

That's just a bit of banter, same scenario though, last frame of the session, playing to the Crucible crowd.

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Final Weekend Discussion

Postby Roland

snooker loopy wrote:
Sonny wrote:@snookerloopy I think the main point is that you're asking the eventual finalists of the event to play a hell of a lot of match snooker in a short space of time. I mean the Crucible is over 17 days and it starts from the last 32 and that's plenty draining enough for even the Ebdon stamina players. Imagine 4 fewer days and 96 more matches and you see why it couldn't work.


Surely that means only the very very best of the game could rise through it. Yes it's a demanding schedule but that would be the draw of the tournament, ensuring it isn't just another 128 Best of 11fest. It needs an elevated status.


I would love some more long format 2 session type events. Flat 128 you'd have to have qualifying before venue for logistics though. I think the only way is for more invitational big money events like the COC or seeded structure like the Worlds.

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Final Weekend Discussion

Postby vodkadiet

Alex Higgins once carried on when needing 14 snookers against Bill Werbeniuk. Werbeniuk started playing shots with one hand and this incensed Higgins so much he that he told the referee to tell Werbeniuk to stop as he thought he was being disrespectful!

You either bring in a rule that says a player has a nominal amount of shots to extricate the amount of required foul points, or you leave well alone. Otherwise it is just a matter of opinion, like most things on these pages!

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Final Weekend Discussion

Postby Roland

Ha I remember Werbeniuk playing one handed, as a kid I loved it and thought he was really funny. I also remember for a while after practicing one handed on my 6x3ft table. I remember the referee telling him to play with both hands to my disappointment. I didn't realise or forgot that it was because Higgins was playing on for so many snookers.

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Final Weekend Discussion

Postby vodkadiet

Sonny wrote:Ha I remember Werbeniuk playing one handed, as a kid I loved it and thought he was really funny. I also remember for a while after practicing one handed on my 6x3ft table. I remember the referee telling him to play with both hands to my disappointment. I didn't realise or forgot that it was because Higgins was playing on for so many snookers.


Yes, I think they were on the yellow and Werbeniuk was 80 ahead when he started playing one handed. I think the referee was John Williams. Higgins won the match, then got hammered by his best mate Steve Davis!

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Final Weekend Discussion

Postby Andy Spark

TheRocket wrote:Sonny, you should just ignore this guy. I've just checked up that forum a little bit and damn, it's disgusting what this guy is writing about some players.

Must be somehow painful for Ronnie to have supporters like that. Like it would be for Hendry if I sight some of his supporters without mentioning names here. However. Ignoring is the best thing I would say.

On the matter I just want to say this. There is a lot of dislike for Dan over here. No wonder he passionately dislikes you lot! I will concede that Daniel's posting style is not the most diplomatic and maybe his style of argument is not the most concise or nuanced, but without knowing the full history that you two sites have, I can say that I have found Dan to be a nice, kind human being.

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Final Weekend Discussion

Postby Wildey

Andy Spark wrote:
TheRocket wrote:Sonny, you should just ignore this guy. I've just checked up that forum a little bit and damn, it's disgusting what this guy is writing about some players.

Must be somehow painful for Ronnie to have supporters like that. Like it would be for Hendry if I sight some of his supporters without mentioning names here. However. Ignoring is the best thing I would say.

On the matter I just want to say this. There is a lot of dislike for Dan over here. No wonder he passionately dislikes you lot! I will concede that Daniel's posting style is not the most diplomatic and maybe his style of argument is not the most concise or nuanced, but without knowing the full history that you two sites have, I can say that I have found Dan to be a nice, kind human being.

well of course hes nice and kind to you <ok>