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Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Holden Chinaski

TheRocket wrote:Selby is and was always a tough opponent for him, like Ebdon and Higgins. These three are all tough matchplayers and mentally as tough as granite and if you don't play your best game, they will outfight you and that's what happened yesterday.

Ronnie had some of his best matches and best victories against these three players but at the same time also his worst losses, the latter was the case yesterday. It's always a 50/50 match between Ron and these players.

So it's even much better as a Ronnie supporter that he's having a positive H2H against all of these three tough matchplayers. He beat Higgins and Selby in two Masters finals, two matches by totally destroying them, can't ask for more.

He also beat Higgins in a World Championship final :-)

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby TheRocket

Holden Chinaski wrote:
TheRocket wrote:Selby is and was always a tough opponent for him, like Ebdon and Higgins. These three are all tough matchplayers and mentally as tough as granite and if you don't play your best game, they will outfight you and that's what happened yesterday.

Ronnie had some of his best matches and best victories against these three players but at the same time also his worst losses, the latter was the case yesterday. It's always a 50/50 match between Ron and these players.

So it's even much better as a Ronnie supporter that he's having a positive H2H against all of these three tough matchplayers. He beat Higgins and Selby in two Masters finals, two matches by totally destroying them, can't ask for more.

He also beat Higgins in a World Championship final :-)


Yeah. That was probably his most important victory in his career but the 2005 Masters final was just something special. It was pure perfection, pure genius.

He totally destroyed Higgins and Higgins was actually playing even good, lol.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Andre147

Just out of curiosity, Robbo did get the high break prize with the 140 break he made against Robbie Williams.

Seems like ages ago those first round matches, I would think 140 wouldn't stand as the highest break but there you go...

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby GJ

What was the year Higgins beat Ronnie in a decider in masters final

Ronnie was 60 points up and Higgins cleared the lot.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby GJ

Andre147 wrote:Just out of curiosity, Robbo did get the high break prize with the 140 break he made against Robbie Williams.

Seems like ages ago those first round matches, I would think 140 wouldn't stand as the highest break but there you go...


Yeah 140 must be one of the lowest high breaks ever I think

We havnt had a crucible max for a while

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Andre147

GJ wrote:What was the year Higgins beat Ronnie in a decider in masters final

Ronnie was 60 points up and Higgins cleared the lot.


2006 Masters Final, one of the best ever Finals in snooker and one of the best ever clearances especially under the intense pressure Higgins was in. :hatoff:

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Skullman

GJ wrote:
Andre147 wrote:Just out of curiosity, Robbo did get the high break prize with the 140 break he made against Robbie Williams.

Seems like ages ago those first round matches, I would think 140 wouldn't stand as the highest break but there you go...


Yeah 140 must be one of the lowest high breaks ever I think

We havnt had a crucible max for a while


It's only been 2 years.

BTW high break was 138 in 2011, jointly held by Ding and King.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby GJ

Skullman wrote:
GJ wrote:What was the year Higgins beat Ronnie in a decider in masters final

Ronnie was 60 points up and Higgins cleared the lot.


2006.



Cheers skull

That was such a dramatic end

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Andre147

GJ wrote:
Andre147 wrote:Just out of curiosity, Robbo did get the high break prize with the 140 break he made against Robbie Williams.

Seems like ages ago those first round matches, I would think 140 wouldn't stand as the highest break but there you go...


Yeah 140 must be one of the lowest high breaks ever I think

We havnt had a crucible max for a while


2012 isn't that long ago is it... <laugh> Hendry made it against Bingo.

Ronnie should try and make one to better Hendry cause they're equal on 3 maxis made there.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby GJ

Skullman wrote:
GJ wrote:
Andre147 wrote:Just out of curiosity, Robbo did get the high break prize with the 140 break he made against Robbie Williams.

Seems like ages ago those first round matches, I would think 140 wouldn't stand as the highest break but there you go...


Yeah 140 must be one of the lowest high breaks ever I think

We havnt had a crucible max for a while


It's only been 2 years.

BTW high break was 138 in 2011, jointly held by Ding and King.



Oh yeah the famous jet lagged hendo max , it was funny because in predicts wild put jet lagged hendo to make Amax and he did

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby TheRocket

Who believes, that we are gonna see one more Ronnie-Higgins final in the future? With final I mean a proper final, not a PTC match or like that.

It's a shame really that the last proper final between Ronnie and Higgins was in 2006.
ROS-Higgins matches are classic and I really hope, that we are gonna see one more match between these two. One last time.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Skullman

Higgins will have rediscover his form from somewhere, hasn't looked close to reaching a final since June, and that was in Wuxi where he didn't face a single top16 player til the semis (and even that was Stevens).

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Andre147

Skullman wrote:Higgins will have rediscover his form from somewhere, hasn't looked close to reaching a final since June, and that was in Wuxi where he didn't face a single top16 player til the semis (and even that was Stevens).


I've been saying this for a long time, Higgins will be a bit like Ebdon in recent years, every once in a while has a purple patch and wins a ranking event, because I think he's still good enough to win regular rankers.

When it comes to the Majors though, Higgins won't win another World Title, he just won't. Masters too I don't think he will, I would give him a slim chance of winning another UK title, but I have my doubts about that.

As for the other regular rankers yeah his game is still in good shape to win a few more.

Can't say the same about Mark Williams though, he's "dead and buried" I'm afraid.
Last edited by Andre147 on 06 May 2014, edited 1 time in total.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Snooker Overdrive

TheRocket wrote:Who believes, that we are gonna see one more Ronnie-Higgins final in the future? With final I mean a proper final, not a PTC match or like that.

It's a shame really that the last proper final between Ronnie and Higgins was in 2006.
ROS-Higgins matches are classic and I really hope, that we are gonna see one more match between these two. One last time.


Depends on Higgins. He was playing a bit better after the Masters, making a couple of quarter finals in a row but then he had that shocker against McManus at the Crucible.

No idea what Higgins has left in the tank but I think a proper final between the two is quite unlikely now.

The last Hendry v Ronnie final was the 2005 Welsh Open, unfortunately that was before my time :-(

The last Hendry v Higgins final was way back in 1998 by the way.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Roland

I think we'll see Higgins and O'Sullivan in a big final again at some point, or at least a semi-final.

Interesting thoughts on the difference between Williams and Selby. Williams was the first player who changed my favourite player from Jimmy White and Selby took over from Williams when he went AWOL. It's very hard to say obviously because there's 11 years between the respective peaks but I think Williams would have had enough to win the 2014 final against Selby. But not Ronnie :redneck:

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby TheRocket

I agree. I think, Higgins has called himself a Top 16- Journeyman after losing to McManus.

I think, he has reached the Ebdon Stage now, meaning that he will have a good run here and there , including winning a title somewhere but not a major threat anymore. MJW probably is finished.

I really appreciate how good Ron is still playing at that age.

Will be exciting to see which player of these three will retire at first. Atm, you have to say MJW.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Andre147

Sonny wrote:I think we'll see Higgins and O'Sullivan in a big final again at some point, or at least a semi-final.

Interesting thoughts on the difference between Williams and Selby. Williams was the first player who changed my favourite player from Jimmy White and Selby took over from Williams when he went AWOL. It's very hard to say obviously because there's 11 years between the respective peaks but I think Williams would have had enough to win the 2014 final against Selby. But not Ronnie :redneck:


Basically what you're saying is a peak Williams would have beaten Selby in this Final right? of course he would, with his outrageous long pots.

But you're forgetting a peak Ronnie playing his full A game would have also beaten Selby in this Final and wouldn't have let slip up a 10-5 lead. :wave:

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby TheRocket

Andre147 wrote:
Sonny wrote:I think we'll see Higgins and O'Sullivan in a big final again at some point, or at least a semi-final.

Interesting thoughts on the difference between Williams and Selby. Williams was the first player who changed my favourite player from Jimmy White and Selby took over from Williams when he went AWOL. It's very hard to say obviously because there's 11 years between the respective peaks but I think Williams would have had enough to win the 2014 final against Selby. But not Ronnie :redneck:


Basically what you're saying is a peak Williams would have beaten Selby in this Final right? of course he would, with his outrageous long pots.

But you're forgetting a peak Ronnie playing his full A game would have also beaten Selby in this Final and wouldn't have let slip up a 10-5 lead. :wave:


Fully agree. Especially that black, missed from the spot in the sixteenth frame probably cost him the match at the end.
Peak O'Sullivan would have gone 12:5 ahead there.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Snooker Overdrive

Andre147 wrote:
Skullman wrote:Higgins will have rediscover his form from somewhere, hasn't looked close to reaching a final since June, and that was in Wuxi where he didn't face a single top16 player til the semis (and even that was Stevens).


I've been saying this for a long time, Higgins will be a bit like Ebdon in recent years, every once in a while has a purple patch and wins a ranking event, because I think he's still good enough to win regular rankers.

When it comes to the Majors though, Higgins won't win another World Title, he just won't. Masters too I don't think he will, I would give him a slim chance of winning another UK title, but I have my doubts about that.

As for the other regular rankers yeah his game is still in good shape to win a few more.

Can't say the same about Mark Williams though, he's "dead and buried" I'm afraid.


Yeah I also said that Higgins could be the new Ebdon.

John has to start accepting that his old game is gone, he has to adjust and battle even harder. His best chance is to win a tournament with a lot of top players skipping, like the Australian Open and other events at the start of the season.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Snooker Overdrive

Sonny wrote:I think we'll see Higgins and O'Sullivan in a big final again at some point, or at least a semi-final.

Interesting thoughts on the difference between Williams and Selby. Williams was the first player who changed my favourite player from Jimmy White and Selby took over from Williams when he went AWOL. It's very hard to say obviously because there's 11 years between the respective peaks but I think Williams would have had enough to win the 2014 final against Selby. But not Ronnie :redneck:


Ironically Selby put that final nail into William's coffin by winning the Shanghai Masters in the decider.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Andre147

TheRocket wrote:
Andre147 wrote:
Sonny wrote:I think we'll see Higgins and O'Sullivan in a big final again at some point, or at least a semi-final.

Interesting thoughts on the difference between Williams and Selby. Williams was the first player who changed my favourite player from Jimmy White and Selby took over from Williams when he went AWOL. It's very hard to say obviously because there's 11 years between the respective peaks but I think Williams would have had enough to win the 2014 final against Selby. But not Ronnie :redneck:


Basically what you're saying is a peak Williams would have beaten Selby in this Final right? of course he would, with his outrageous long pots.

But you're forgetting a peak Ronnie playing his full A game would have also beaten Selby in this Final and wouldn't have let slip up a 10-5 lead. :wave:


Fully agree. Especially that black, missed from the spot in the sixteenth frame probably cost him the match at the end.
Peak O'Sullivan would have gone 12:5 ahead there.


Exactly, wouldnt necessarly have to be peak Ronnie, he would "only" have to take his chances better and not miss silly balls like that black off its spot (he lost his focus when he checked his cue on the shot didnt he...) and that pink to left middle, plus have better positional play because that cost him frame winning breaks.

Had he got that 12-5 lead Selby wouldnt have got under his skin and Ronnie would win confortably in the end, he just let Selby gradually into the match and let him dictate the pace of play, and thats the worst thing a free flowing player like Ronnie can do.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby TheRocket

Andre147 wrote:TR one question though... didn't you say you wouldn't be able to watch the Final cause you had work to do?


I didn't watch it live. I've only watched 8,9 frames so far via youtube today and it was just painful to see how many frames Ronnie lost which he could have won. But even now I haven't seen the whole match.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Roland

I think Higgins finished Williams off in the UK final then the World Semi rather than Selby in the Shanghai to be honest. And yes of course the Ronnie from the last 2 years would have beaten Selby in 2014 because he would have been more than 10-7 after day 1. It's different to say if the Selby of 2014 would have beaten the Ronnie of 2008 though. Selby pushed him to a decider in the UK semi that year and is a more complete player in 2014, whereas Ronnie was more susceptible to being ground down by a grinder pre-Peters.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Andre147

TheRocket wrote:
Andre147 wrote:TR one question though... didn't you say you wouldn't be able to watch the Final cause you had work to do?


I didn't watch it live. I've only watched 8,9 frames so far via youtube today and it was just painful to see how many frames Ronnie lost which he could have won. But even now I haven't seen the whole match.


Oh I see.

Yesterday was a painful day to watch, Ronnie only won 4 frames yesterday after being 10-5 up, it was just painful to watch Selby dictating the pace of play and Ronnie losing the safety battles.

But his main problem was his positional play, awful at times, plus those silly misses, just lack of focus like that black off its spot when he wasn't confortable with his cue for some reason and THAT pink to left middle.