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Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Cloud Strife

Sonny wrote:I think we'll see Higgins and O'Sullivan in a big final again at some point, or at least a semi-final.

Interesting thoughts on the difference between Williams and Selby. Williams was the first player who changed my favourite player from Jimmy White and Selby took over from Williams when he went AWOL. It's very hard to say obviously because there's 11 years between the respective peaks but I think Williams would have had enough to win the 2014 final against Selby. But not Ronnie :redneck:


Make no mistake, a prime Williams would have caned Selby yesterday.

Williams himself was a very wily competitor and would not have fallen for Selby's box of tricks.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Ronnie79

Why is there all this talk of Ronnie in decline because he lost one match.if he had played any other player yday he would have probably would have won and then everyone would be saying he is a cert to pass out Hendry.its not that long ago since he destroyed players like Selby in the Masters and Ding in the Welsh.so i dont think decline sets in that quick.ps he wont need to worry about playing Selby in next season's World because the 'crucible curse' will take care of him.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby mantorok

Sonny wrote:Peace out SO.

And I'd like to thank everybody for keeping it civil on here. We've had a clash of the titans final and there's not a rivalry among the fans of polar opposite players like this anywhere else in snooker. It's nice that those supporting Ronnie have congratulated Mark on his achievement. And I loved the way Ronnie reacted after the match, he's gone massively up in my estimations.


Likewise my respect for Selby has shot up. No other player could have done what he done in that final. Really impressed me.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby mantorok

Cloud Strife wrote:
Sonny wrote:I think we'll see Higgins and O'Sullivan in a big final again at some point, or at least a semi-final.

Interesting thoughts on the difference between Williams and Selby. Williams was the first player who changed my favourite player from Jimmy White and Selby took over from Williams when he went AWOL. It's very hard to say obviously because there's 11 years between the respective peaks but I think Williams would have had enough to win the 2014 final against Selby. But not Ronnie :redneck:


Make no mistake, a prime Williams would have caned Selby yesterday.

Williams himself was a very wily competitor and would not have fallen for Selby's box of tricks.


That safety play though.....that...safety!!! Even the other master tacticians would've struggled.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby NNear

The problem for Ronnie was not mental strength. Though he made errors he fought hard till the end and was eager. The problem was tactics. He should have tried something different... different break offs even, something to change the tempo. He hadn't enough contingency plans. Sometimes pure mental work isn't enough -- it's well documented how Mr.Peters has helped Ronnie out here. You can't just be mentally ready for the task, you need to be tactically and strategically equipped particularly if your pure form isn't A standard.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Lucky

Wow.....Willie sussed Seifer incredibly quick...............

WillieThorneOFFICIAL ‏@IamWillieThorne 3 hrs
@DLPBurke what you know about the game can be written on a postage stamp go and play somewhere else


pmsl

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Vallomas

It's too early to say that O' Sullivan's career is over.

No one can know if he will be able to win a WSC again. But he will be competitive for the top (and younger than him) players for the next 2-3 years at least, so it's up to him how far he can go.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby NNear

Ayrshirebhoy wrote:Ronnie will most defo win more tourneys!


What about Higgins?

Is it really so unreasonable to think he could put together a last flourish and be strong for a couple of years?

Would be great if it happens. I hope it does, though I appreciate most think it won't happen and it probably won't.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Skullman

Well you'd think Higgins's game was more suited for longevity than Ronnie's and yet here they are, with Ronnie being in three consecutive World finals and Higgins losing first round twice to a 40+ and getting thrashed 13-4 by another 40+ who went on to retire because he though he couldn't compete any more.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Dan-cat

Ronnie will be back. He's not past his Selby date yet hehe. It's weird, last year he had an awesome safety game (I remember some of the shots well - that pink and black snooker against Barry) but maybe he didn't practise it much for this year as his attacking game was so good in the Welsh and Masters? He was backing himself a little too much.

So happy for Selby. He is a worthy champion.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Gnomy

I had so much to learn from Selby, just from the single match,
pertaining to snooker and otherwise,

often it's will more than skill.

Boy, I am just so glad Selby won, on so many levels

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Gnomy

vodkadiet wrote:
Gnomy wrote:Are any of our players on facebook?
I mean not a fan page, like were I could possibly greet them, even if they don't reply back.


I think Bingham might be.


I know Stephen Lee is, but not like we are going to be seeing him at any match soon :chuckle:

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Roland

No they don't, they start from zero. Only the top 64 keep their money.

Regards Facebook a lot of players are on it, Gouldy for example is on it all the time. Anthony McGill is always there posting clips of himself playing the guitar. I don't use it but yes, a lot of players are on it, and they generally accept friend requests from fans.

Regarding what Gnomy said about learning from Selby, on the face of it it's obviously not attractive to the casual viewer. But Selby's matchplay is an art form in its own right. He's the first player to have the approach he uses, and it's effective because he's so good. I get endless pleasure studying how he goes about winning matches and putting the pressure on his opponents because he is a bloody smart snooker player.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Jester82

Holden Chinaski wrote:
TheRocket wrote:
Richproc wrote:Seems strange that before some people were saying that this is the best version of Ronnie ever which I disagreed with I thought his peak game was between 2004 and 2008. He is much better mentally now but more inconsistent, and since he lost the world final there saying he is in decline. My view is he can still produce his best at times but is getting through some matches because he is playing against a lot of mental midgets and his better mental state allows him to compete better when not at his best. I think the world championship caught him out as he wasn't in great form and he was up against a player that wouldn't go away and Ronnie hasn't had this situation for a while.


You're not the only one, having that view about Ronnie's peak game. I've always thought and said, standardwise, his best was between 04-08, he played his best matches ever during that period. WC Semi 04,08 and Masters final 05,07 are maybe the best four matches he played.

But mentally he's a tougher guy now, no doubt and it helps him a lot and was the key factor for his two World titles.

The way Ronnie played in that 2005 Masters final against John Higgins was unbelievable. I remember watching that match and I just could not believe how fantastic Ronnie was playing. It was frightening. He was unplayable and he was playing John Higgins FFS! John didn't do much wrong either... Nobody could have beaten Ronnie in that final, not even prime Hendry.


Everyone, who plays an absolute prime Hendry, sits in the chair and waits...that's for sure. Take the prime Hendry and you only sit, even O'Sullivan.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Roland

I would like to see the 2001 final again.

In fact, one project I intend to do is to study every first frame of each world final to see how it plays out with the players setting their stall out for the long run.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Holden Chinaski

Jester82 wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:
TheRocket wrote:
Richproc wrote:Seems strange that before some people were saying that this is the best version of Ronnie ever which I disagreed with I thought his peak game was between 2004 and 2008. He is much better mentally now but more inconsistent, and since he lost the world final there saying he is in decline. My view is he can still produce his best at times but is getting through some matches because he is playing against a lot of mental midgets and his better mental state allows him to compete better when not at his best. I think the world championship caught him out as he wasn't in great form and he was up against a player that wouldn't go away and Ronnie hasn't had this situation for a while.


You're not the only one, having that view about Ronnie's peak game. I've always thought and said, standardwise, his best was between 04-08, he played his best matches ever during that period. WC Semi 04,08 and Masters final 05,07 are maybe the best four matches he played.

But mentally he's a tougher guy now, no doubt and it helps him a lot and was the key factor for his two World titles.

The way Ronnie played in that 2005 Masters final against John Higgins was unbelievable. I remember watching that match and I just could not believe how fantastic Ronnie was playing. It was frightening. He was unplayable and he was playing John Higgins FFS! John didn't do much wrong either... Nobody could have beaten Ronnie in that final, not even prime Hendry.


Everyone, who plays an absolute prime Hendry, sits in the chair and waits...that's for sure. Take the prime Hendry and you only sit, even O'Sullivan.

So Hendry was not in his prime in 1993 and 1997 when Ronnie beat him in those two UK Championship finals?

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Jester82

Holden Chinaski wrote:
Jester82 wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:
TheRocket wrote:
Richproc wrote:Seems strange that before some people were saying that this is the best version of Ronnie ever which I disagreed with I thought his peak game was between 2004 and 2008. He is much better mentally now but more inconsistent, and since he lost the world final there saying he is in decline. My view is he can still produce his best at times but is getting through some matches because he is playing against a lot of mental midgets and his better mental state allows him to compete better when not at his best. I think the world championship caught him out as he wasn't in great form and he was up against a player that wouldn't go away and Ronnie hasn't had this situation for a while.


You're not the only one, having that view about Ronnie's peak game. I've always thought and said, standardwise, his best was between 04-08, he played his best matches ever during that period. WC Semi 04,08 and Masters final 05,07 are maybe the best four matches he played.

But mentally he's a tougher guy now, no doubt and it helps him a lot and was the key factor for his two World titles.

The way Ronnie played in that 2005 Masters final against John Higgins was unbelievable. I remember watching that match and I just could not believe how fantastic Ronnie was playing. It was frightening. He was unplayable and he was playing John Higgins FFS! John didn't do much wrong either... Nobody could have beaten Ronnie in that final, not even prime Hendry.


Everyone, who plays an absolute prime Hendry, sits in the chair and waits...that's for sure. Take the prime Hendry and you only sit, even O'Sullivan.

So Hendry was not in his prime in 1993 and 1997 when Ronnie beat him in those two UK Championship finals?


Yes, but how did Ronnie perform at the World Champs at that time?

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Jester82

Sonny wrote:I watched the 1993 UK Final recently and Ronnie was raw. I think he caught Hendry by surprise.


Yes, and two years later, Ronnie went out 13-8 at the WSC against Hendry...