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Who's WC performance was better; Ronnie or Judd?

Judd Trump - 2019 World Championship Final
6
46%
Ronnie O'Sullivan - 2004 World Championship Semi-final
7
54%
 
Total votes : 13

Who's WC performance was better; Ronnie or Judd?

Postby Ash147

Judd's match against Higgins in the final this year and Ronnie's match against Hendry in 2004 are, in my opinion, the two best performances I have seen at the World Championship.

Out of these two performances, which one do you think was the best and why?

Here are a few stats, for those interested.

Judd:

Breaks over 50: 135, 126, 114, 105, 104, 103, 101, 94, 71, 71, 70, 63, 62, 58, 51
Points scored: 1681
Average points/frame: 62.26

Ronnie:

Breaks over 50: 127, 117, 98, 93, 92, 85, 81, 79, 71, 67, 63, 58, 52.
Points scored: 1539
Average points/frame: 73.29
Last edited by Ash147 on 12 Aug 2019, edited 3 times in total.

Re: Who's WC performance was better; Ronnie or Judd?

Postby Iranu

Badsnookerplayer wrote:Both great performances but I chose Judd as to produce that level in the WC final is special

Did the same for the same reason. And also because Ash has selected the 2014 Ronnie semi in the poll, an odd choice in my humble opinion.

Re: Who's WC performance was better; Ronnie or Judd?

Postby Ash147

Iranu wrote:
Badsnookerplayer wrote:Both great performances but I chose Judd as to produce that level in the WC final is special

Did the same for the same reason. And also because Ash has selected the 2014 Ronnie semi in the poll, an odd choice in my humble opinion.


Damn it, I'll have to edit it now. <doh>

Re: Who's WC performance was better; Ronnie or Judd?

Postby PLtheRef

Although both were great in their own ways I think Trump shades it on the level of the opposition and the importance of the match.

Trump's performance came in the biggest match of the season, the World Championship Final, an event which he hadn't yet won, but had been beaten in the Final of after a period, similar to O'Sullivan in 2001 when the questions were being asked, that if he wasn't to go on and achieve it soon, would he ever do it? O'Sullivan's performance came in a World Championship Semi-Final between the World's number two and three granted, but he was already a World Champion by that point, and had achieved victories in all of the games events.

Trump's performance came in a Final where John Higgins was left with pretty much little he could do, but threw the sink at him when he could, Four centuries and he found himself 14-7 down and actually facing the prospect of a session to spare defeat despite making breaks of 139, 69, 101, 125, 113, 59, 67 and 70 himself. Though Hendry didn't have many chances against O'Sullivan in 2004, what inevitably helped widen the deficit was Hendry's performance when given chances in the 'scrappier' frames, he didn't take them, there was a real sense that O'Sullivan should have finished the Friday afternoon 14-2 ahead.

Re: Who's WC performance was better; Ronnie or Judd?

Postby TheRocket

Very tough to answer. Ronnie absolutely trashed and humiliated Hendry with a session to spare. Hendry had never experienced anything like that before at the Crucible. Bar 2008 obviously when it happened again.

Trumps performance was equally impressive though. It was a World final and he had never won the World title at that point. And it was against his nemesis Higgins whom he had never beaten in a bo11 or longer match before. And Higgins was actually playing good.

If you go for pure humiliation+standard you say Ronnie. If you choose occasion+standard its Trump.
So its humiliation vs occasion.

Re: Who's WC performance was better; Ronnie or Judd?

Postby TheRocket

rekoons wrote:Voted Ronnie, mostly for nostalgic reason though.
When was it again there was needle between Ronnie and Hendry?


Yes. The needle started before their WC 2002 semifinal when Ronnie made those remarks about sending Hendry back to Scotland and his sad life. It backfired obviously as Ronnie end up losing that match. So that match in 2004 took place during the needle era.

The needle probably lasted until 2008 or so. Until Ronnie beat Hendry again at the WC. From that moment on they started to respect each other again and they obviously have a good relationship nowadays.
Last edited by TheRocket on 12 Aug 2019, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Who's WC performance was better; Ronnie or Judd?

Postby SnookerFan

rekoons wrote:Voted Ronnie, mostly for nostalgic reason though.
When was it again there was needle between Ronnie and Hendry?


Not recently.

Hendry's commentary is practically a Ronnie love-in these days.

Re: Who's WC performance was better; Ronnie or Judd?

Postby D4P

TheRocket wrote:
rekoons wrote:Voted Ronnie, mostly for nostalgic reason though.
When was it again there was needle between Ronnie and Hendry?


Yes. The needle started before their WC 2002 semifinal when Ronnie made those remarks about sending Hendry back to Scotland and his sad life. It backfired obviously as Ronnie lost that match. So that match in 2004 took place during the needle era.


Ronnie talks about this in his book "Running". I don't remember all the details, but apparently one of Ronnie's friends convinced him that rivals shouldn't be friendly and that Ronnie should talk trash about Hendry. Ronnie did so on his friend's suggestion, but felt very badly about it afterward and was eventually able to apologize and reconcile with Stephen.

Re: Who's WC performance was better; Ronnie or Judd?

Postby Andre147

There wasn´t any needle between them anymore in 2004, in fact Ronnie apologised to Hendry shortly after his 2002 remarks, as he felt bad about it.

Wish I could have seen that live though, I imagine the tension and expectation for the match was just unbelievable. I´ve watched it on YT though and when they shake hands and their expressions during the match show just how much both wanted to beat each other badly. We had something similar between Allen and Bingham and Allen (again) and Mark Joyce, but between 2 all time greats this takes a different dimension.

Re: Who's WC performance was better; Ronnie or Judd?

Postby Iranu

Dan-cat wrote:Ronnie was hanging around with boxer Amir Khan at the time and was influenced by his trash talk

Wasn’t it Prince Naseem? Pretty sure Khan was a child at that time - I’d have some follow-up questions!

Re: Who's WC performance was better; Ronnie or Judd?

Postby Cloud Strife

Iranu wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:Ronnie was hanging around with boxer Amir Khan at the time and was influenced by his trash talk

Wasn’t it Prince Naseem? Pretty sure Khan was a child at that time - I’d have some follow-up questions!


Yeah it Prince Naseem, which is strange because I always thought he was friends with Hendry.

Re: Who's WC performance was better; Ronnie or Judd?

Postby PLtheRef

Cloud Strife wrote:
Iranu wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:Ronnie was hanging around with boxer Amir Khan at the time and was influenced by his trash talk

Wasn’t it Prince Naseem? Pretty sure Khan was a child at that time - I’d have some follow-up questions!


Yeah it Prince Naseem, which is strange because I always thought he was friends with Hendry.


He was, seem to recall he watched the World Championship quarter final against Darren Morgan in 1997 sat in the press seats. Morgan wasn't impressed with Naseem tapping the press table or something like that