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Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby Iranu

lhpirnie wrote:I'm not blaming WST directly for the failures of Michael White, James Cahill, Luo Honghao, Soheil Vahedi, Bai Langning, etc. this week. The system is only partially to blame.


My comments about 'closed shop' is because it's an increasing trend, for example the advent of the Coral, sorry Kazoo, Series. It's like they are closing the door behind Judd Trump, yes.

But they have to have one Chinese player, for promotional purposes. Whether that's Ding or Yan doesn't make much difference from the point of view of selling the game to China, or claiming that snooker is 'a global game'.

If snooker dies in 15 years, that will be blamed on the organisation then. I suspect that many at the top of snooker have given up on the future anyway - it's not their problem. The results from Q School today tend to affirm that view.

I still don’t think what you’re saying really makes sense. How are they closing the door behind Judd Trump? All players are eligible for the ITV series, it’s the other tournament formats that are the problem, surely? And there are plenty of young players who SHOULD be performing better than they are season round. Some of whom you’ve mentioned.

8 of the 32 players in the WGP were under 30, and 3 of 16 in the Players Championship. A decent run in the WGP alone could confirm a PC place so if anything it’s an additional opportunity as long as you have a fee wins under your belt especially if the WGP continues to be in December (which I don’t think it should.)

I don’t buy that snooker leadership wants it to be a closed shop or that it’s given up on the game and I don’t think you’ve really provided any evidence for that. It just seems like a conspiracy theory to me.

Today’s results are a predictable result of the Q School format.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby Iranu

lhpirnie wrote:
Prop wrote:Right. Cool. It’s just the bit about them “quietly replacing Ding with Yan and nobody noticing” that puzzled me, and continues to do so. I find it quite an odd thing to say.

Yes, well before Christmas we heard both Neil Robertson and John Higgins (in interviews) saying that they thought Zhou Yuelong would be the one "to take over from Ding". Oops. But actually, many people have talked about "the Chinese No.1" as if there mustn't be more than one top player. We have all heard comments about 'Chinese invasions' and people who say they will stop watching snooker, etc, etc. Having a clear No.1 probably helps promoting.

I haven’t heard anybody say they’ll stop watching snooker if there are several top Chinese players.

It’s also quite normal in sport to refer to a player as “[country]’s Number 1” and I don’t see why it doesn’t make sense to use Ding as a milestone for Yan Bingtao to look to surpass. It probably happens less in snooker because most players are British so while you could say “Scottish Number 1” it doesn’t really have the same importance unless they’re also British Number 1 but it’s exceedingly unlikely that they wouldn’t also be World Number 1!

In contrast, there’s no point referring to Robertson as the “Australian Number 1” if he’s basically the only Australian in snooker - makes more sense to call them the most successful overseas player which people often do.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby Prop

lhpirnie wrote:
Prop wrote:Right. Cool. It’s just the bit about them “quietly replacing Ding with Yan and nobody noticing” that puzzled me, and continues to do so. I find it quite an odd thing to say.

Yes, well before Christmas we heard both Neil Robertson and John Higgins (in interviews) saying that they thought Zhou Yuelong would be the one "to take over from Ding". Oops. But actually, many people have talked about "the Chinese No.1" as if there mustn't be more than one top player. We have all heard comments about 'Chinese invasions' and people who say they will stop watching snooker, etc, etc. Having a clear No.1 probably helps promoting.


I get you. I mean, from my point of view I couldn’t give two hoots where a player is from, as long as I enjoy watching them! But I can see how language like ‘invasion’ might once have been negatively interpreted. That’s a fair point.

I’m no real expert on the matter, but I like to think our sport, WST and WPBSA are progressive. We are a global sport. Much more than we once were.

I know you’re passionate about the Chinese players. And that’s great. But while language like ‘invasion’ was once used quite innocently (which I would be quite sure has not been used by anybody affiliated with running the game in many many years), it doesn’t mean there’s a bias or conspiracy that favours players that aren’t from China. There’s just no evidence for it. There’s no conscious effort to restrict the number of Chinese players at the top of the game.

As for people saying they would switch off if the Chinese players were more successful? Well, I haven’t heard anyone say that, but I would personally object to that. Like I said before. It does not matter where a player is from. If they are good enough - to entertain me in my armchair at home, to qualify for events, to earn a good living, or to win a huge tournament and inspire more young players to play snooker - then they are good enough. Simple as that.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby lhpirnie

Iranu wrote:I still don’t think what you’re saying really makes sense. How are they closing the door behind Judd Trump? All players are eligible for the ITV series, it’s the other tournament formats that are the problem, surely? And there are plenty of young players who SHOULD be performing better than they are season round. Some of whom you’ve mentioned.

Indeed, you are quite right - there are players who should be doing better. But if we consider a 'young player' as someone in the youngest 25% of players, there are only 6 of them in the top-64, not 'plenty'. Of course there are young players further down, but they don't seem able to break through. Even if this is not due to systemic reasons, I still think WST should try to do something to help, for the good of the game. Nothing.


The effect of the ITV Series is to pull the top players further out in front, generally. Being top players, they stand a better chance to qualify and do well in them, and thus extend their advantage in the rankings for 2 more years. For example, Steve Maguire is pretty much guaranteed a top-16 place until April 2022 on the strength of his TC win. At the very least, they don't have to be worrying about their ranking, something which cripples a lot of players lower down.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby KrazeeEyezKilla

I don't think there's an active attempt to stop players from China or other countries breaking through but I do think it is not very high on the list of priorities. The structure of the tour has barely changed in 40 years. I wouldn't expect miracles but there's must be a few ways of making it more accessible to players around the World. Every tournament should at least be played in full in the country it's based in. A change to the ranking system so that lower ranked wouldn't have travel everywhere entering every tournament.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby lhpirnie

KrazeeEyezKilla wrote:I don't think there's an active attempt to stop players from China or other countries breaking through but I do think it is not very high on the list of priorities. The structure of the tour has barely changed in 40 years. I wouldn't expect miracles but there's must be a few ways of making it more accessible to players around the World. Every tournament should at least be played in full in the country it's based in. A change to the ranking system so that lower ranked wouldn't have travel everywhere entering every tournament.

Yes, a global ranking system would fix almost all the problems that currently exist in snooker! I've said that many times. Imagine if you could be on the same ranking list as Ronnie O'Sullivan, albeit further down. Wouldn't that make you want to play in local Am or Pro-Am tournaments!


But it's very difficult to basically abandon their life and come to live in England, especially the Chinese teenagers. They do get to feel like outsiders, essentially playing 'away matches' every week. I've also said that snooker won't be fully global until players can get to the top without having to permanently move away from their home countries.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby gallantrabbit

Alfie Burden self proclaiming as a hellraiser!! Maybe at the qualifiers Alf...

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby gallantrabbit

So are people still bitching at the Jimmy card???
Jimmy or Steadman and Pinches??

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby aimlesswandeer

gallantrabbit wrote:So are people still bitching at the Jimmy card???
Jimmy or Steadman and Pinches??


Steadman and Pinches at least earned their cards in the past week. Jimmy got his because of things he did twenty plus years ago.

If anything it makes it feel worse, as Q School seems to favour the old heads with lots of experience so surely best to use discretionary wild cards on younger players, especially with no new EPBSA nominees (I think).

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby HappyCamper

aimlesswandeer wrote:
gallantrabbit wrote:So are people still bitching at the Jimmy card???
Jimmy or Steadman and Pinches??


Steadman and Pinches at least earned their cards in the past week. Jimmy got his because of things he did twenty plus years ago.

If anything it makes it feel worse, as Q School seems to favour the old heads with lots of experience so surely best to use discretionary wild cards on younger players, especially with no new EPBSA nominees (I think).


There are two slots for EBSA. But I've not seen anything for when a euro champs will be held.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby aimlesswandeer

HappyCamper wrote:
aimlesswandeer wrote:
gallantrabbit wrote:So are people still bitching at the Jimmy card???
Jimmy or Steadman and Pinches??


Steadman and Pinches at least earned their cards in the past week. Jimmy got his because of things he did twenty plus years ago.

If anything it makes it feel worse, as Q School seems to favour the old heads with lots of experience so surely best to use discretionary wild cards on younger players, especially with no new EPBSA nominees (I think).


There are two slots for EBSA. But I've not seen anything for when a euro champs will be held.


Yeah, the website is still talking about last year’s event. It’s unlikely they will hold it in time for the new season meaning any qualifiers will be behind everyone else.

Pagett is getting his place deferred by a year. He was obviously too young at 38 to fit in on tour last year.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby lhpirnie

aimlesswandeer wrote:Yeah, the website is still talking about last year’s event. It’s unlikely they will hold it in time for the new season meaning any qualifiers will be behind everyone else.

Pagett is getting his place deferred by a year. He was obviously too young at 38 to fit in on tour last year.

Which means the Order of Merit places are more important than ever. I do wish they would give out 1-year tour cards when it's clear that there will be vacancies on tour.


I haven't heard from Andy Pagett. Is he well enough to compete this season?

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby HappyCamper

aimlesswandeer wrote:
HappyCamper wrote:
aimlesswandeer wrote:
gallantrabbit wrote:So are people still bitching at the Jimmy card???
Jimmy or Steadman and Pinches??


Steadman and Pinches at least earned their cards in the past week. Jimmy got his because of things he did twenty plus years ago.

If anything it makes it feel worse, as Q School seems to favour the old heads with lots of experience so surely best to use discretionary wild cards on younger players, especially with no new EPBSA nominees (I think).


There are two slots for EBSA. But I've not seen anything for when a euro champs will be held.


Yeah, the website is still talking about last year’s event. It’s unlikely they will hold it in time for the new season meaning any qualifiers will be behind everyone else.

Pagett is getting his place deferred by a year. He was obviously too young at 38 to fit in on tour last year.


pagett was actually very sick, and had to have surgery for a partial bowel removal. hence the deferral. hopefully he has recovered well.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby Badsnookerplayer

HappyCamper wrote:
aimlesswandeer wrote:
HappyCamper wrote:
aimlesswandeer wrote:
gallantrabbit wrote:So are people still bitching at the Jimmy card???
Jimmy or Steadman and Pinches??


Steadman and Pinches at least earned their cards in the past week. Jimmy got his because of things he did twenty plus years ago.

If anything it makes it feel worse, as Q School seems to favour the old heads with lots of experience so surely best to use discretionary wild cards on younger players, especially with no new EPBSA nominees (I think).


There are two slots for EBSA. But I've not seen anything for when a euro champs will be held.


Yeah, the website is still talking about last year’s event. It’s unlikely they will hold it in time for the new season meaning any qualifiers will be behind everyone else.

Pagett is getting his place deferred by a year. He was obviously too young at 38 to fit in on tour last year.


pagett was actually very sick, and had to have surgery for a partial bowel removal. hence the deferral. hopefully he has recovered well.

I obviously sympathise with the partial bowel removal malarkey but don't think he deserves a wildcard.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby HappyCamper

Badsnookerplayer wrote:
HappyCamper wrote:
aimlesswandeer wrote:
HappyCamper wrote:
aimlesswandeer wrote:Steadman and Pinches at least earned their cards in the past week. Jimmy got his because of things he did twenty plus years ago.

If anything it makes it feel worse, as Q School seems to favour the old heads with lots of experience so surely best to use discretionary wild cards on younger players, especially with no new EPBSA nominees (I think).


There are two slots for EBSA. But I've not seen anything for when a euro champs will be held.


Yeah, the website is still talking about last year’s event. It’s unlikely they will hold it in time for the new season meaning any qualifiers will be behind everyone else.

Pagett is getting his place deferred by a year. He was obviously too young at 38 to fit in on tour last year.


pagett was actually very sick, and had to have surgery for a partial bowel removal. hence the deferral. hopefully he has recovered well.

I obviously sympathise with the partial bowel removal malarkey but don't think he deserves a wildcard.


he's not getting a wild card, he got a full two year card as european champion. it's just been deffered a year.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby aimlesswandeer

lhpirnie wrote:
aimlesswandeer wrote:Yeah, the website is still talking about last year’s event. It’s unlikely they will hold it in time for the new season meaning any qualifiers will be behind everyone else.

Pagett is getting his place deferred by a year. He was obviously too young at 38 to fit in on tour last year.

Which means the Order of Merit places are more important than ever. I do wish they would give out 1-year tour cards when it's clear that there will be vacancies on tour.


I haven't heard from Andy Pagett. Is he well enough to compete this season?


I don’t know for sure, just that he is due to join the tour.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby aimlesswandeer

HappyCamper wrote:
aimlesswandeer wrote:
HappyCamper wrote:
aimlesswandeer wrote:
gallantrabbit wrote:So are people still bitching at the Jimmy card???
Jimmy or Steadman and Pinches??


Steadman and Pinches at least earned their cards in the past week. Jimmy got his because of things he did twenty plus years ago.

If anything it makes it feel worse, as Q School seems to favour the old heads with lots of experience so surely best to use discretionary wild cards on younger players, especially with no new EPBSA nominees (I think).


There are two slots for EBSA. But I've not seen anything for when a euro champs will be held.


Yeah, the website is still talking about last year’s event. It’s unlikely they will hold it in time for the new season meaning any qualifiers will be behind everyone else.

Pagett is getting his place deferred by a year. He was obviously too young at 38 to fit in on tour last year.


pagett was actually very sick, and had to have surgery for a partial bowel removal. hence the deferral. hopefully he has recovered well.


He’s earned his place, hopefully he gets to make the most of it.