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Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby SteveJJ

Wildey wrote:SPOT 5 Final
Barry Pinches v Sanderson Lam


SPOT 6 Final
Hammad Miah v Craig Steadman


SPOT 7 Final
Michael Judge v Kuldesh Johal


SPOT 8 Final
Alfie Burden v Michael Collumb


Judgement day for Michael

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby Wildey

SteveJJ wrote:
Wildey wrote:SPOT 5 Final
Barry Pinches v Sanderson Lam


SPOT 6 Final
Hammad Miah v Craig Steadman


SPOT 7 Final
Michael Judge v Kuldesh Johal


SPOT 8 Final
Alfie Burden v Michael Collumb


Judgement day for Michael

its been 10 years since Judge or Johal was on tour today 1 of them will be back

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby cupotee

mick745 wrote:
cupotee wrote:
mick745 wrote:
chengdufan wrote:
But we are snooker aficionados - but the majority of people arent. Yes it may be an extremely competitive game between the world no. 87 v world no. 88 but realistically how many people are going to watch?

The vast majority of the paying public want to watch the top players v the top players.

.


but do you actually know that , when did the bbc or anyone else take a survey of what the public wants out of snooker , even if i was less interested in snooker than i am i'd be sick to the back teeth of o sullivan higgins trump selby , when you hear people talking in clubs the conversation is often about new players they saw , not the same old same old.


But in all sports everyone is looking for the potential new star. Most of these "journeymen" perennial q schoolers havent achieved anything and have long passed the age when if they were going to they would have.

Oooh great its Rod Lawler v Ian Burns on an outside table, i must turn over from watching O'Sullivan v Trump.


but how are you going to get a potential new star when there's hardly any facilities respectably replicating pro conditions outside of wst events ? o sullivan had the advantage of getting into the pro game when the top 16 had the likes of dennis taylor doug mountjoy martin clark and tony jones in it , what potential new star is going to oust o sullivan with his 30 years experience constantly pretending he's going somewhere else and doing nothing of the sort ? i think they should invest in some league system outside of the pro tour and get the media to broadcast it too , that would show some initiative but i'm probably overestimating the pen pushers in this aspect i suppose.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby HappyCamper

that is basically what they tried (minus the broadcast they are reliant on getting viewing figures to justify it, unless they try to do something with matchroom live) with the challenge tour. but the pandemic put the kibosh on that last year.
Last edited by HappyCamper on 07 Jun 2021, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby mick745

cupotee wrote:
mick745 wrote:
cupotee wrote:
mick745 wrote:
chengdufan wrote:
But we are snooker aficionados - but the majority of people arent. Yes it may be an extremely competitive game between the world no. 87 v world no. 88 but realistically how many people are going to watch?

The vast majority of the paying public want to watch the top players v the top players.

.


but do you actually know that , when did the bbc or anyone else take a survey of what the public wants out of snooker , even if i was less interested in snooker than i am i'd be sick to the back teeth of o sullivan higgins trump selby , when you hear people talking in clubs the conversation is often about new players they saw , not the same old same old.


But in all sports everyone is looking for the potential new star. Most of these "journeymen" perennial q schoolers havent achieved anything and have long passed the age when if they were going to they would have.

Oooh great its Rod Lawler v Ian Burns on an outside table, i must turn over from watching O'Sullivan v Trump.


but how are you going to get a potential new star when there's hardly any facilities respectably replicating pro conditions outside of wst events ? o sullivan had the advantage of getting into the pro game when the top 16 had the likes of dennis taylor doug mountjoy martin clark and tony jones in it , what potential new star is going to oust o sullivan with his 30 years experience constantly pretending he's going somewhere else and doing nothing of the sort ? i think they should invest in some league system outside of the pro tour and get the media to broadcast it too , that would show some initiative but i'm probably overestimating the pen pushers in this aspect i suppose.


I know a system that has been mooted is having four "leagues" of 32 players each with promotion and relegation between each. Each player plays players of roughly the same ability and you if you are good enough you can reach the big time in three years. Those say bottom half of the lowest tier would be replaced.

Maybe each player could play every other player in his or her league once during the season or something (31 matches each) or have some sort of end of season event.

Prize money could maybe halve each time, so league 4 would have around 1/16th of the funding of league 1.

However i am not sure of the commercial sponsorship potential of the lowest tier.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby lhpirnie

The_Abbott wrote:Not the ideal line up but its what the dice gave us.

Whats interesting is most of these had a poor Q1. So it just shows that its all about how well you play on the day and anyone can quality. Some good players possibly not getting back on tour yet the likes of Lines and Pinches seem to keep doing it.

Indeed, 2 years ago Alex Borg lost in the first round of QS1 and QS2, but qualified from QS3! Needless to say, he didn't have a massively successful stint in tour.


History repeats itself, and again, and again, ....

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby mick745

Tournaments would work like this:

Tier 3 v Tier 4, first round of qualifying.

Winners play Tier 2 players in second round of qualifying.

The 32 qualifiers play top 32 at venues.

The rolling seeding system can still continue but you cant move from your tier during the current season.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby cupotee

mick745 wrote:
.
[/quote]


I know a system that has been mooted is having four "leagues" of 32 players each with promotion and relegation between each. Each player plays players of roughly the same ability and you if you are good enough you can reach the big time in three years. Those say bottom half of the lowest tier would be replaced.

Maybe each player could play every other player in his or her league once during the season or something (31 matches each) or have some sort of end of season event.

Prize money could maybe halve each time, so league 4 would have around 1/16th of the funding of league 1.

However i am not sure of the commercial sponsorship potential of the lowest tier.[/quote]

that sounds alright and i think broadcasters should give it airtime , they're assuming it would fail when they don't know , young kids just seeing their fellow age group on the tv will inspire them and i think the ratings would steadily increase too , anything else seems a bit of a dead end tbh.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby lhpirnie

mick745 wrote:Tournaments would work like this:

Tier 3 v Tier 4, first round of qualifying.

Winners play Tier 2 players in second round of qualifying.

The 32 qualifiers play top 32 at venues.

The rolling seeding system can still continue but you cant move from your tier during the current season.

It's a question of how to support a healthy tour. These 'tiered' suggestions are a fast-track to effectively reducing the number of professionals. It would bankrupt anyone outside the top-64.


You could take it further.

There's a strong financial case to be made for just having a tour consisting of Trump, O'Sullivan, Selby, Robertson, Higgins, Williams, Murphy, Allen, K.Wilson and of course Jimmy White. The broadcasters, media, organisers, general public and of course the top players themselves would love that! It could run for at least another 10 years and make a huge amount of money.

Is that what you want?

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby Wildey

lhpirnie wrote:
mick745 wrote:Tournaments would work like this:

Tier 3 v Tier 4, first round of qualifying.

Winners play Tier 2 players in second round of qualifying.

The 32 qualifiers play top 32 at venues.

The rolling seeding system can still continue but you cant move from your tier during the current season.

It's a question of how to support a healthy tour. These 'tiered' suggestions are a fast-track to effectively reducing the number of professionals. It would bankrupt anyone outside the top-64.


You could take it further.

There's a strong financial case to be made for just having a tour consisting of Trump, O'Sullivan, Selby, Robertson, Higgins, Williams, Murphy, Allen, K.Wilson and of course Jimmy White. The broadcasters, media, organisers, general public and of course the top players themselves would love that! It could run for at least another 10 years and make a huge amount of money.

Is that what you want?

in a nutshell thats Almost what football was thinking about this European Super league that fell flat from the start.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby cupotee

lhpirnie wrote:
mick745 wrote:Tournaments would work like this:

Tier 3 v Tier 4, first round of qualifying.

Winners play Tier 2 players in second round of qualifying.

The 32 qualifiers play top 32 at venues.

The rolling seeding system can still continue but you cant move from your tier during the current season.

It's a question of how to support a healthy tour. These 'tiered' suggestions are a fast-track to effectively reducing the number of professionals. It would bankrupt anyone outside the top-64.


You could take it further.

There's a strong financial case to be made for just having a tour consisting of Trump, O'Sullivan, Selby, Robertson, Higgins, Williams, Murphy, Allen, K.Wilson and of course Jimmy White. The broadcasters, media, organisers, general public and of course the top players themselves would love that! It could run for at least another 10 years and make a huge amount of money.

Is that what you want?


i think he was just talking about an amateur system that would be completely detached from the experienced pro players and thus giving them the necessary experience to eventually compete on the pro tour , i was anyway.

and it could be broadcast too , snooker isn't o sullivan and vice versa , not suggesting you're saying that of course.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby mick745

Not everything has to be straight knock out tournaments, i think a league system running parallel could increase interest and even fill dead weeks in the calendar.

If say eight get promoted, eight relegated from each sector, there should be plenty of crucial promotion and relegation battles right throughout the season.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby mick745

lhpirnie wrote:
mick745 wrote:Tournaments would work like this:

Tier 3 v Tier 4, first round of qualifying.

Winners play Tier 2 players in second round of qualifying.

The 32 qualifiers play top 32 at venues.

The rolling seeding system can still continue but you cant move from your tier during the current season.

It's a question of how to support a healthy tour. These 'tiered' suggestions are a fast-track to effectively reducing the number of professionals. It would bankrupt anyone outside the top-64.


You could take it further.

There's a strong financial case to be made for just having a tour consisting of Trump, O'Sullivan, Selby, Robertson, Higgins, Williams, Murphy, Allen, K.Wilson and of course Jimmy White. The broadcasters, media, organisers, general public and of course the top players themselves would love that! It could run for at least another 10 years and make a huge amount of money.

Is that what you want?


I was saying it could run parallel to tournaments not replace them. There would still be earning potential outside of this.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby mick745

lhpirnie wrote:
mick745 wrote:Tournaments would work like this:

Tier 3 v Tier 4, first round of qualifying.

Winners play Tier 2 players in second round of qualifying.

The 32 qualifiers play top 32 at venues.

The rolling seeding system can still continue but you cant move from your tier during the current season.

It's a question of how to support a healthy tour. These 'tiered' suggestions are a fast-track to effectively reducing the number of professionals. It would bankrupt anyone outside the top-64.


You could take it further.

There's a strong financial case to be made for just having a tour consisting of Trump, O'Sullivan, Selby, Robertson, Higgins, Williams, Murphy, Allen, K.Wilson and of course Jimmy White. The broadcasters, media, organisers, general public and of course the top players themselves would love that! It could run for at least another 10 years and make a huge amount of money.

Is that what you want?


Tbh there is no reason to fix the tour at 128. As long as the number of professionals is based on merit i have no problem with 64 professionals or 1200 professionals. As long as the top 64 are the 64 best players its fine by me. Even wst costs may reduce significantly leading to a better income for those players.

Those that can sustain a living from it should. If you cant - well sport is not a charity.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby lhpirnie

Wildey wrote:...
in a nutshell thats Almost what football was thinking about this European Super league that fell flat from the start.

Yes, and it failed because the other 86 clubs have supporters, and the top clubs had supporters who believed in the principle of relegation.


Let's face it, hardly anyone cares about players outside the top 10 or so, or players who used to be famous. Similarly, nobody is bothered about the future of the game, they just want their own personal favourite player to keep winning forever.

The money will follow those top players. Any attempt to 'partition' the tour will basically lead to those outside the top tier becoming amateurs, who have to support themselves with outside jobs. Ultimately, goodbye professional snooker.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby mick745

lhpirnie wrote:
Wildey wrote:...
in a nutshell thats Almost what football was thinking about this European Super league that fell flat from the start.

Yes, and it failed because the other 86 clubs have supporters, and the top clubs had supporters who believed in the principle of relegation.


Let's face it, hardly anyone cares about players outside the top 10 or so, or players who used to be famous. Similarly, nobody is bothered about the future of the game, they just want their own personal favourite player to keep winning forever.

The money will follow those top players. Any attempt to 'partition' the tour will basically lead to those outside the top tier becoming amateurs, who have to support themselves with outside jobs. Ultimately, goodbye professional snooker.


One of the main reasons interest has been on the wane in the uk is precisely because it has become stale, the same old faces long outstayed their welcome. It is neither their fault nor the sports fault, they are still the best players and that is how it is.

But the "churn" of top players just hasnt been rapid enough, new players generate interest. People may remember Jackson Page from coverage of a tournament a couple of years ago but when does the casual fan ever get to see him play?

Players' path to the top is too slow for people to follow their story, interest is lost until they start popping up regularly on the telly quite a few years later.

When i told people at work Hendry had drawn White in the qualifiers for the wsc people where just amazed they still played. But again the casual fan wouldnt get to see it, or indeed ever get to see White play at all.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby cupotee

uefa football with its global audience and ownership from oligarchs and billionaire oil companies isn't a great comparison to pro snooker though , completely off topic but i never really got the uproar about the soccer european super league , sorry but how many of those man utd fans protesting on the pitch before the liverpool game could name a championship league player , and gary neville moaning about man utd being formed out of working class principles in the satanic mills era when queen victoria still had 20 years left on her reign , sorry its a different world since then , its like he and his peers are only protecting their position from the back flak.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby mick745

cupotee wrote:uefa football with its global audience and ownership from oligarchs and billionaire oil companies isn't a great comparison to pro snooker though , completely off topic but i never really got the uproar about the soccer european super league , sorry but how many of those man utd fans protesting on the pitch before the liverpool game could name a championship league player , and gary neville moaning about man utd being formed out of working class principles in the satanic mills era when queen victoria still had 20 years left on her reign , sorry its a different world since then , its like he and his peers are only protecting their position from the back flak.


Exactly. Premier League teams didnt give two hoots about Bury folding a couple of years back. Even though Bury's ground had a stand named after Gary and Phil Neville's father.

Premier League clubs could easily had baled them out if they had wanted. But they didnt want to.

I like football but i always make sure the Premier League teams dont get a single penny of my money.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby Wildey

First Men through Q School 2 have had long careers there already

Michael Judge Age 45 20th and 21st season on tourTurned Pro 1992/1993

Alfie Burden Age 44 25th and 26th season on tourTurned Pro 1994/1995

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby cupotee

mick745 wrote:
cupotee wrote:uefa football with its global audience and ownership from oligarchs and billionaire oil companies isn't a great comparison to pro snooker though , completely off topic but i never really got the uproar about the soccer european super league , sorry but how many of those man utd fans protesting on the pitch before the liverpool game could name a championship league player , and gary neville moaning about man utd being formed out of working class principles in the satanic mills era when queen victoria still had 20 years left on her reign , sorry its a different world since then , its like he and his peers are only protecting their position from the back flak.


Exactly. Premier League teams didnt give two hoots about Bury folding a couple of years back. Even though Bury's ground had a stand named after Gary and Phil Neville's father.

Premier League clubs could easily had baled them out if they had wanted. But they didnt want to.

I like football but i always make sure the Premier League teams dont get a single penny of my money.


fair enough , derby county winning the old division 1 , ipswich town winning the uefa cup , leeds utd making the european cup final , qpr nearly winning the old division 1, and of course forest and villa , good times but you'll only get that back with a salary cap and transfer cap i think.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby Iranu

cupotee wrote:fair enough , derby county winning the old division 1 , ipswich town winning the uefa cup , leeds utd making the european cup final , qpr nearly winning the old division 1, and of course forest and villa , good times but you'll only get that back with a salary cap and transfer cap i think.

Leicester?

The problem with the ESL is it completely removes any stakes for those “top” (Tottenham rofl) clubs without any relegation AND it cuts off most of the footballing world from reaching the top like Leicester did.

Honestly, I think snooker fans would be just as outraged with a system that did the same and removed any possibility of a Shaun Murphy 2005 World Title run or a Jordan Brown ranking title. I think what broadcasters want to show is being confused with what fans want to see.

I’d be interested to see what viewing figures were like for the World Qualifiers.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby cupotee

Iranu wrote:
cupotee wrote:fair enough , derby county winning the old division 1 , ipswich town winning the uefa cup , leeds utd making the european cup final , qpr nearly winning the old division 1, and of course forest and villa , good times but you'll only get that back with a salary cap and transfer cap i think.

Leicester?

The problem with the ESL is it completely removes any stakes for those “top” (Tottenham rofl) clubs without any relegation AND it cuts off most of the footballing world from reaching the top like Leicester did.

Honestly, I think snooker fans would be just as outraged with a system that did the same and removed any possibility of a Shaun Murphy 2005 World Title run or a Jordan Brown ranking title. I think what broadcasters want to show is being confused with what fans want to see.

I’d be interested to see what viewing figures were like for the World Qualifiers.


the way the world qualifiers are presented should be looked at too i think , for example when Soheil Vahedi lead 5 - 2 and the Belgian Leclercq came back to win to put Vahedi into q school or Ben Mertens being 5 - 1 up on Lei Peifan but not closing the match , and take away any idea that these players aren't any good , they are and play them up while presenting them.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby mick745

cupotee wrote:
mick745 wrote:
cupotee wrote:uefa football with its global audience and ownership from oligarchs and billionaire oil companies isn't a great comparison to pro snooker though , completely off topic but i never really got the uproar about the soccer european super league , sorry but how many of those man utd fans protesting on the pitch before the liverpool game could name a championship league player , and gary neville moaning about man utd being formed out of working class principles in the satanic mills era when queen victoria still had 20 years left on her reign , sorry its a different world since then , its like he and his peers are only protecting their position from the back flak.


Exactly. Premier League teams didnt give two hoots about Bury folding a couple of years back. Even though Bury's ground had a stand named after Gary and Phil Neville's father.

Premier League clubs could easily had baled them out if they had wanted. But they didnt want to.

I like football but i always make sure the Premier League teams dont get a single penny of my money.


fair enough , derby county winning the old division 1 , ipswich town winning the uefa cup , leeds utd making the european cup final , qpr nearly winning the old division 1, and of course forest and villa , good times but you'll only get that back with a salary cap and transfer cap i think.


Leicester arent some plucky underdog. They have spent hundreds of millions on players and facilities and have one of the richest owners in the premier league.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby chengdufan

Pinches with (I think) the first century break of the day to lead Sanderson Lam 3-2.

Miah down 2-3 to Steadman, 7 points ahead in the sixth with pink and black left

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby chengdufan

Miah pots the pink to take it to a decider. He was 3-0 down, scoring a total of 10 points in those first three frames.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby cupotee

mick745 wrote:
cupotee wrote:
mick745 wrote:
cupotee wrote:uefa football with its global audience and ownership from oligarchs and billionaire oil companies isn't a great comparison to pro snooker though , completely off topic but i never really got the uproar about the soccer european super league , sorry but how many of those man utd fans protesting on the pitch before the liverpool game could name a championship league player , and gary neville moaning about man utd being formed out of working class principles in the satanic mills era when queen victoria still had 20 years left on her reign , sorry its a different world since then , its like he and his peers are only protecting their position from the back flak.


Exactly. Premier League teams didnt give two hoots about Bury folding a couple of years back. Even though Bury's ground had a stand named after Gary and Phil Neville's father.

Premier League clubs could easily had baled them out if they had wanted. But they didnt want to.

I like football but i always make sure the Premier League teams dont get a single penny of my money.


fair enough , derby county winning the old division 1 , ipswich town winning the uefa cup , leeds utd making the european cup final , qpr nearly winning the old division 1, and of course forest and villa , good times but you'll only get that back with a salary cap and transfer cap i think.


Leicester arent some plucky underdog. They have spent hundreds of millions on players and facilities and have one of the richest owners in the premier league.


that would be to Iranu , yes i never got that either , just shows how bereft they are , and notice how there was hardly anyone in the media with an opposing viewpoint , two cheeks one arsenal and all that.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby mick745

lhpirnie wrote:
Wildey wrote:...
in a nutshell thats Almost what football was thinking about this European Super league that fell flat from the start.

Yes, and it failed because the other 86 clubs have supporters, and the top clubs had supporters who believed in the principle of relegation.


Let's face it, hardly anyone cares about players outside the top 10 or so, or players who used to be famous. Similarly, nobody is bothered about the future of the game, they just want their own personal favourite player to keep winning forever.

The money will follow those top players. Any attempt to 'partition' the tour will basically lead to those outside the top tier becoming amateurs, who have to support themselves with outside jobs. Ultimately, goodbye professional snooker.


There are a lot more than 86 other clubs, lots of people i know support local "non league" teams.

The thing people object to is having a closed shop. In all sports people should be able to advance on merit.

While it is appealing to have fixtures of the calibre of Barcelona v Man Utd or Real Madrid v PSG every week to watch it is the method of how these clubs are chosen to participate that is the issue.

In snooker the only way to determine who is best is to see who wins most snooker matches. You cannot really define supporter base.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby Iranu

mick745 wrote:Leicester arent some plucky underdog. They have spent hundreds of millions on players and facilities and have one of the richest owners in the premier league.

Of course but it’s all relative, isn’t it?

When Villa won the league in 81 they’d been in the top division for five season. Leicester did it in two.

Plenty of teams have tried to do the same and failed even with heavy investment. Everton have spent like £400 million in the last four/five years and can’t get above 7th which was I think five seasons ago.

What Leicester did showed that the top of the league wasn’t impenetrable, which people assumed it was for all but a select few clubs. The ESL would remove that possibility even for clubs who spend money and invest well etc.

I don’t think any snooker fan casual or otherwise would want to see a tour where there are no stakes. What sports fan would want that?

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby chengdufan

Steadman wins the decider

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby Wildey

The Qualifiers are getting younger

Craig Steadman Age 38 10th and 11th season on tourTurned Pro 2009/2010