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Re: the greatest of all time ?

Postby vodkadiet1

I guess it is irrefutable. Higgins is the greatest. An unbiased study using logic rather than fanboyism cannot be contested.
Last edited by vodkadiet1 on 17 Mar 2021, edited 1 time in total.

Re: the greatest of all time ?

Postby Andre147

vodkadiet1 wrote:I guess it is irreutable. Higgins is the greatest. An unbiased study using logic rather than fanboyism cannot be contested.


So suddenly your theory that titles are the most important factor goes out the water?

Hendry's 7 Worlds count less than Higgins 4 Worlds?

What if this study had O'Sullivan as the greatest? Would you still say it's an unbiased study?

Re: the greatest of all time ?

Postby vodkadiet1

Andre147 wrote:
vodkadiet1 wrote:I guess it is irreutable. Higgins is the greatest. An unbiased study using logic rather than fanboyism cannot be contested.


So suddenly your theory that titles are the most important factor goes out the water?

Hendry's 7 Worlds count less than Higgins 4 Worlds?

What if this study had O'Sullivan as the greatest? Would you still say it's an unbiased study?


You cannot argue with the algorithm. Computers are far more reliable than humans.

Re: the greatest of all time ?

Postby Pink Ball

csprince wrote:Monday 15 Mar 2021 10:25AM
A complex mathematical study, analysing all matches played since 1968, has named John Higgins as the highest performing snooker player of the modern era.

Higgins came out on top ahead of Ronnie O’Sullivan, with Mark Williams third and Stephen Hendry fourth.


It’s not Rocket science: this is the equation which ranked John Higgins above Ronnie O’Sullivan

The study, led by Joseph D O’Brien of the University of Limerick and published in the Journal of Complex Networks, examined nearly 48,000 results between 1968 and 2020. An intricate algorithm weights results based on the quality of the opponent, and also takes into account head-to-head records between the leading players.

And Higgins came out on top, despite trailing other all-time greats in terms of major titles. He has four World Championship crowns, compared to Hendry’s seven and O’Sullivan’s six, while Higgins has won 31 ranking titles, compared to 37 for O’Sullivan and 36 for Hendry.

Acknowledging the study, Higgins said: “I’m truly flattered, but I have to admit I have not won enough of the big titles consistently to be regarded as the greatest of all time. If I had to give the accolade to anyone it would have to be my rival for so many years…Ronnie!”

Table 1The top 20 players in Snooker’s history.
Rank Player PageRank score In strength Nationality Start End
1 John Higgins 0.0204 899 Scotland 1992 —
2 Ronnie O’Sullivan 0.0201 843 England 1992 —
3 Mark Williams 0.0169 768 Wales 1992 —
4 Stephen Hendry 0.0164 818 Scotland 1985 2011
5 Mark Selby 0.0149 643 England 1999 —
6 Judd Trump 0.0136 579 England 2005 —
7 Neil Robertson 0.0134 581 Australia 2000 —
8 Steve Davis 0.0129 761 England 1978 2014
9 Shaun Murphy 0.0126 552 England 1998 —
10 Jimmy White 0.0116 650 England 1980 —
11 Stephen Maguire 0.0113 475 Scotland 1997 —
12 Ali Carter 0.0111 487 England 1996 —
13 Peter Ebdon 0.0110 520 England 1991 —
14 Ken Doherty 0.0110 523 Ireland 1990 —
15 Barry Hawkins 0.0105 475 England 2000 —
16 Marco Fu 0.0104 427 Hong Kong 1997 —
17 Ding Junhui 0.0103 436 China 2003 —
18 Stuart Bingham 0.0101 477 England 1996 —
19 Mark Allen 0.0100 444 Northern Ireland 2002 —
20 Ryan Day 0.0098 458 Wales 1998 —

I think it forgot to carry the one.

Re: the greatest of all time ?

Postby Holden Chinaski

Andre147 wrote:
vodkadiet1 wrote:I guess it is irreutable. Higgins is the greatest. An unbiased study using logic rather than fanboyism cannot be contested.


So suddenly your theory that titles are the most important factor goes out the water?

Hendry's 7 Worlds count less than Higgins 4 Worlds?

What if this study had O'Sullivan as the greatest? Would you still say it's an unbiased study?

Stop feeding the troll.

Re: the greatest of all time ?

Postby TheRocket

I have a lot of respect for Higgins and for me he is an underachiever but even Higgins himself rightfully said he cant be the greatest as he hasnt won the big titles as often and consistently. He's not even the best player of his own generation.

And pretty much everything else on the list is nonsense as well. No way Maguire and Carter are that high and above the likes of Ding or Ebdon, no way someone like Day in the Top20 but many World Champions and very good players like Reardon, A.Higgins and Parrott arent.

Re: the greatest of all time ?

Postby Juddernaut88

TheRocket wrote:I have a lot of respect for Higgins and for me he is an underachiever but even Higgins himself rightfully said he cant be the greatest as he hasnt won the big titles as often and consistently. He's not even the best player of his own generation.

And pretty much everything else on the list is nonsense as well. No way Maguire and Carter are that high and above the likes of Ding or Ebdon, no way someone like Day in the Top20 but many World Champions and very good players like Reardon, A.Higgins and Parrott arent.


Yep I agree, I also completely forgot about John Parrott, he is another that should be there.

Re: the greatest of all time ?

Postby vodkadiet1

The University of Limerick is legendary for its scientific accuracy.

The University of Limerick > all other opnions combined.

Re: the greatest of all time ?

Postby Iranu

There once was a study from Limerick,
That sought snooker quality real quick,
Their method was crude
So their results were skewed
But still Vodkadiet sucked its sausage.

Re: the greatest of all time ?

Postby vodkadiet1

There was an algorithm created in Limerick
It deciphered greatness in balls hit with a stick
Objections to its findings were raised
By biased fans who were easily phased
But its accuracy was irrefutably authentic

Re: the greatest of all time ?

Postby Iranu

Vodkadiet: “Ryan Day is a greater player than Ray Reardin.”

- 18/03/2021

Re: the greatest of all time ?

Postby vodkadiet1

Iranu wrote:Vodkadiet: “Ryan Day is a greater player than Ray Reardin.”

- 18/03/2021



He should be. Reardon is 88 now!!

Re: the greatest of all time ?

Postby Iranu

Iranu wrote:Vodkadiet: “Ryan Day is a greater player than Ray Reardin.”

- 18/03/2021

And would rather make a stupid joke that admit he’s wrong.

Re: the greatest of all time ?

Postby chengdufan

vodkadiet1 wrote:I will take the computerised assessment over human error.

Who (or what?) do you think programmed the formula into the computer, vd?

Re: the greatest of all time ?

Postby Iranu

vodkadiet1 wrote:I will take the computerised assessment over human error.

Ryan Day > Ray Reardon

Re: the greatest of all time ?

Postby chengdufan

There once was a man on a diet,
Who didn't know when to stay quiet,
Specialised in defiance,
Certainly not in science,
He made everyone reading feel tired.

Re: the greatest of all time ?

Postby vodkadiet1

Iranu wrote:
vodkadiet1 wrote:I will take the computerised assessment over human error.

Ryan Day > Ray Reardon


You need to understand the intricacies of the algorithm before passing judgement. Until you have fully grasped the way the algorithm works then it would be best to stay silent.

'Talking is cheap, people follow like sheep even though there is nowhere to go.'

<cool>

Re: the greatest of all time ?

Postby vodkadiet1

vodkadiet1 wrote:
Iranu wrote:
vodkadiet1 wrote:I will take the computerised assessment over human error.

Ryan Day > Ray Reardon


You need to understand the intricacies of the algorithm before passing judgement. Until you have fully grasped the way the algorithm works then it would be best to stay silent.

'Talking is cheap, people follow like sheep even though there is nowhere to go.'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n03g8nsaBro

<cool>

Re: the greatest of all time ?

Postby Iranu

“Ryan Day > Ray Reardon”

“Achievements outweigh opinion every time”

- Vodkadiet

Re: the greatest of all time ?

Postby vodkadiet1

Iranu wrote:“Ryan Day > Ray Reardon”

“Achievements outweigh opinion every time”

- Vodkadiet



Not quite. It was Clive Everton in fact.

:hatoff:

Re: the greatest of all time ?

Postby Holden Chinaski

Iranu wrote:“Ryan Day > Ray Reardon”

“Achievements outweigh opinion every time”

- Vodkadiet

At least Vodka finally agreed Ronnie is better than Hendry. Took him a while.

Re: the greatest of all time ?

Postby lhpirnie

vodkadiet1 wrote:
Iranu wrote:
vodkadiet1 wrote:I will take the computerised assessment over human error.

Ryan Day > Ray Reardon


You need to understand the intricacies of the algorithm before passing judgement. Until you have fully grasped the way the algorithm works then it would be best to stay silent.

'Talking is cheap, people follow like sheep even though there is nowhere to go.'

<cool>

There is quite a lot of stuff in their research which is good, but the comparisons between eras is flawed. You can't compare between eras with statistical methods like those.


The authors are misguided, possibly because they are trying to make a few headlines.

Re: the greatest of all time ?

Postby vodkadiet1

lhpirnie wrote:
vodkadiet1 wrote:
Iranu wrote:
vodkadiet1 wrote:I will take the computerised assessment over human error.

Ryan Day > Ray Reardon


You need to understand the intricacies of the algorithm before passing judgement. Until you have fully grasped the way the algorithm works then it would be best to stay silent.

'Talking is cheap, people follow like sheep even though there is nowhere to go.'

<cool>

There is quite a lot of stuff in their research which is good, but the comparisons between eras is flawed. You can't compare between eras with statistical methods like those.


The authors are misguided, possibly because they are trying to make a few headlines.


That is a valid point. But the fact that Higgins' career has run parallel with O'Sullivan's means a correct assessment can be safely made. The algorithm therefore works in this context.

Higgins > O'Sullivan.

The University of Limerick.

:hatoff:

Re: the greatest of all time ?

Postby SnookerEd25

vodkadiet1 wrote:
Iranu wrote:Vodkadiet: “Ryan Day is a greater player than Ray Reardin.”

- 18/03/2021



He should be. Reardon is 88 now!!



Ah. But how old is Ray Reardin? :chin:

Re: the greatest of all time ?

Postby Johnny Bravo

chengdufan wrote:There once was a man on a diet,
Who didn't know when to stay quiet,
Specialised in defiance,
Certainly not in science,
He made everyone reading feel tired.

:goodpost: :hatoff:

Re: the greatest of all time ?

Postby Johnny Bravo

vodkadiet1 wrote:I guess it is irrefutable. Higgins is the greatest. An unbiased study using logic rather than fanboyism cannot be contested.

So basically you are admitting Ronnie is greater than Hendry and has played to a higher level, right ?