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Re: Bank of Beijing China Open Final !!!!

Postby Cloud Strife

Wildey wrote:
eraserhead wrote:No ones slagging Selby off he played great in the last few frames and was solid for what I saw. I just think it's silly to start putting him above Williams.

Also Selby gets the less stick on here than others no one comes out in defence of Allen, Murphy or Trump.

i think its double standards people rate Ronnie above Hendry 7 or 8 years ago when he quite clearly wasent....

Yes Williams has won more Tournaments but Selby has done enough on that scenario to be classed as his equal.


It's not double standards at all. The reasoning people used to justify putting Ronnie ahead of Hendry 7 years ago was Hendry played in a supposed weaker era than Ronnie therefore his achievements are not as great as Ronnie's despite winning more.

Well, the same reasoning is being used here. Selby even if (big if) he wins more than Williams he won't be ahead of him because Williams won his title in a far harder era.

These debates about who's better than who were never simply about the amount of titles won. If they were then there wouldn't be a debate to start with.

Again, this is all opinion and nobody is slagging anyone off.

Re: Bank of Beijing China Open Final !!!!

Postby eraserhead

Wildey wrote:
eraserhead wrote:No ones slagging Selby off he played great in the last few frames and was solid for what I saw. I just think it's silly to start putting him above Williams.

Also Selby gets the less stick on here than others no one comes out in defence of Allen, Murphy or Trump.

i think its double standards people rate Ronnie above Hendry 7 or 8 years ago when he quite clearly wasent....

Yes Williams has won more Tournaments but Selby has done enough on that scenario to be classed as his equal.

Yeah but it's all just opinion at the end of the day there will be someone out there who's started watching snooker recently who rates Judd better than Ronnie because of their recent finals.


Folks will always have their biases, and get overly invested in teams or people in sport.

:shrug:

Re: Bank of Beijing China Open Final !!!!

Postby Dannyboy

Mark Selby has already won more than £550,000 this season. If he gets to the Final at the Crucible, he'll break the record for the most amount of money won in a single season, of all time. If he wins in Sheffield, he'll have won around £930,000. Huge amount of money for snooker.

The current record is £700,000 by Mark Williams.

Re: Bank of Beijing China Open Final !!!!

Postby Badsnookerplayer

SnookerFan wrote:I appreciate all the time I have spent talking to snooker with you guys. All of you. :hatoff:

I am fairly new to this site and would be gutted if it were to disappear. I have enjoyed reading the many posts on here, taking part in discussions and learning from the coaching sections.

It has re-invigorated my interest in the great game.

Re: Bank of Beijing China Open Final !!!!

Postby Andre147

Cloud Strife wrote:
It's not double standards at all. The reasoning people used to justify putting Ronnie ahead of Hendry 7 years ago was Hendry played in a supposed weaker era than Ronnie therefore his achievements are not as great as Ronnie's despite winning more.

Well, the same reasoning is being used here. Selby even if (big if) he wins more than Williams he won't be ahead of him because Williams won his title in a far harder era.

These debates about who's better than who were never simply about the amount of titles won. If they were then there wouldn't be a debate to start with.

Again, this is all opinion and nobody is slagging anyone off.


I just wish Wild understood this. Nobody here was slagging Selby off, we all have diferent opinions, and for me, MJW is still above Selby even if Selby won a 3rd World Title, just like many consider Ronnie the GOAT even though he's 2 Worlds behind Hendry.

It's just diferent opinions, but we all here said Selby played very well in this Final, and MJW didnt choke it for me, it was down to Selby's great play from 8-7 down, played 3 almost perfect frames, well 2 of them were, the last wasn't but still he finished it well.

Selby clear favourite for me for the Worlds, and if there's anyone who could win China Open and Worlds back to back, then Selby is your man to bet on it. In 2015 he failed in the 2nd round of the Worlds, but he was 1st time defending champion, and whether we like it or not, that played a part with the Crucible Curse. Now he's not 1st time defending champ there anymore, so he can do what Ronnie did in 2013 and defend the World Title.

Re: Bank of Beijing China Open Final !!!!

Postby Andre147

Selby also unofficially sucessfully defended this China Open title, having won in 2015 and not taken part last year.

It was great to see MJW reach a ranking event Final again, came up short again but at least he didn't choke it, Selby was just superior in those 3 final frames.

Re: Bank of Beijing China Open Final !!!!

Postby Badsnookerplayer

Bit mystifying really as they are both great players and a credit to the game. I might prefer one based on their style, although in fact they are both excellent to watch in their own way. You just cannot accurately compare who is best across eras as had Selby played in a 'tougher' era then he may have evolved into a different player.

Today's match was great and I wouldn't have minded who won

Re: Bank of Beijing China Open Final !!!!

Postby Andre147

Badsnookerplayer wrote:Bit mystifying really as they are both great players and a credit to the game. I might prefer one based on their style, although in fact they are both excellent to watch in their own way. You just cannot accurately compare who is best across eras as had Selby played in a 'tougher' era then he may have evolved into a different player.

Today's match was great and I wouldn't have minded who won


That's actually a good point, we will never know how Selby would have coped in the strongest era of all between 98-2005 had he played his prime then.

He did reach the Final of the 2003 Scottish Open and the Semis of the China Open back in 2002, but he was obviously much younger then and hadnt' developed the sort of game he plays nowadays.

I think he would have coped well then, maybe not winning as much titles as he has recently, but he would be a top player like he is today.

Re: Bank of Beijing China Open Final !!!!

Postby Mavi

I believe you can only judge a player on evidence, and the evidence suggests mark selby is one of the best to have picked up a snooker cue. Dont judge a player based only on who he has faced, judge him on the performance. Selby is strong is all areas of the game, whether it be potting, break-building, safety, temperament. He ticks all the boxes, emphatically so I would say.
Those who claim this to be a weak era are severly biased. The likes of neil robertson, who scored 100 centuries in a single season; judd trump who pots balls for fun; o'sullivan who arguably (except the current season) has been in the form of his life; and a resurgent john higgins are a match for any era, but Selby has persevered through it regardless.

Re: Bank of Beijing China Open Final !!!!

Postby Badsnookerplayer

Mavi wrote:I believe you can only judge a player on evidence, and the evidence suggests mark selby is one of the best to have picked up a snooker cue. Dont judge a player based only on who he has faced, judge him on the performance. Selby is strong is all areas of the game, whether it be potting, break-building, safety, temperament. He ticks all the boxes, emphatically so I would say.
Those who claim this to be a weak era are severly biased. The likes of neil robertson, who scored 100 centuries in a single season; judd trump who pots balls for fun; o'sullivan who arguably (except the current season) has been in the form of his life; and a resurgent john higgins are a match for any era, but Selby has persevered through it regardless.

Agreed - the game would be poorer without him

Re: Bank of Beijing China Open Final !!!!

Postby Pink Ball

Badsnookerplayer wrote:Bit mystifying really as they are both great players and a credit to the game. I might prefer one based on their style, although in fact they are both excellent to watch in their own way. You just cannot accurately compare who is best across eras as had Selby played in a 'tougher' era then he may have evolved into a different player.

Today's match was great and I wouldn't have minded who won

Interesting point given how good a match player Selby is.

Re: Bank of Beijing China Open Final !!!!

Postby Dan-cat

Badsnookerplayer wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:I appreciate all the time I have spent talking to snooker with you guys. All of you. :hatoff:

I am fairly new to this site and would be gutted if it were to disappear. I have enjoyed reading the many posts on here, taking part in discussions and learning from the coaching sections.

It has re-invigorated my interest in the great game.


A lovely post.

I'd be really sad if this site shut down. I've made lovely connections with people on here.

I have thought about getting in touch with Roland and asking what his plans are. I'm not sure what the running costs are, I'd be happy to contribute to its upkeep to keep it alive, perhaps he could set up a Paypal donation thingy and if we all bunged some dough, in those of us that can afford it, we can keep it alive for years to come.

Thank you roland for this site. You did a great thing.

Re: Bank of Beijing China Open Final !!!!

Postby Cloud Strife

Dan-cat wrote:
Badsnookerplayer wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:I appreciate all the time I have spent talking to snooker with you guys. All of you. :hatoff:

I am fairly new to this site and would be gutted if it were to disappear. I have enjoyed reading the many posts on here, taking part in discussions and learning from the coaching sections.

It has re-invigorated my interest in the great game.


A lovely post.

I'd be really sad if this site shut down. I've made lovely connections with people on here.

I have thought about getting in touch with Roland and asking what his plans are. I'm not sure what the running costs are, I'd be happy to contribute to its upkeep to keep it alive, perhaps he could set up a Paypal donation thingy and if we all bunged some dough, in those of us that can afford it, we can keep it alive for years to come.

Thank you roland for this site. You did a great thing.


If Roland can't be fussed with it anymore I think a good solution would be to hand the forum over to someone else (as long as that person isn't Wild) to run. I've seen various forums change owners over the years so it can be done.

To simply switch it off would be such a waste, IMO.

Re: Bank of Beijing China Open Final !!!!

Postby SnookerFan

Cloud Strife wrote:
If Roland can't be fussed with it anymore I think a good solution would be to hand the forum over to someone else (as long as that person isn't Wild) to run. I've seen various forums change owners over the years so it can be done.

To simply switch it off would be such a waste, IMO.


There are financial costs to running this forum, aren't there?

Not saying we shouldn't hand it over to somebody, just mentioning it as a consideration.

Re: Bank of Beijing China Open Final !!!!

Postby SnookerFan

But, though I legitimately hope it's not, if The Crucible this year is Snooker Island's last hurrah we should make it a good one.

None of these tournaments we've had recently where bugger all people come online. We've got to laugh, to have one more party, one more amazing tournament. Let's not worry who likes what player and who doesn't. Let's not argue about who the GOAT time is, and who isn't. Let's not let the shitty coverage on the BBC, or the commentator's obsession with golf spoil it.

Let's just enjoy a snooker tournament. Let's hang out, let's talk about it all. Let's raise one more drink to each other, and watch some snooker together. Isn't that what this forum really should be about? Snooker based fellowship.

Once more to the breach, dear friends. Once more....

Re: Bank of Beijing China Open Final !!!!

Postby SnookerEd25

SnookerFan wrote:But, though I legitimately hope it's not, if The Crucible this year is Snooker Island's last hurrah we should make it a good one.

None of these tournaments we've had recently where bugger all people come online. We've got to laugh, to have one more party, one more amazing tournament. Let's not worry who likes what player and who doesn't. Let's not argue about who the GOAT time is, and who isn't. Let's not let the shitty coverage on the BBC, or the commentator's obsession with golf spoil it.

Let's just enjoy a snooker tournament. Let's hang out, let's talk about it all. Let's raise one more drink to each other, and watch some snooker together. Isn't that what this forum really should be about? Snooker based fellowship.

Once more to the breach, dear friends. Once more....


...(wipes tear from eye)... :clap:

Re: Bank of Beijing China Open Final !!!!

Postby Cloud Strife

SnookerEd25 wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:But, though I legitimately hope it's not, if The Crucible this year is Snooker Island's last hurrah we should make it a good one.

None of these tournaments we've had recently where bugger all people come online. We've got to laugh, to have one more party, one more amazing tournament. Let's not worry who likes what player and who doesn't. Let's not argue about who the GOAT time is, and who isn't. Let's not let the shitty coverage on the BBC, or the commentator's obsession with golf spoil it.

Let's just enjoy a snooker tournament. Let's hang out, let's talk about it all. Let's raise one more drink to each other, and watch some snooker together. Isn't that what this forum really should be about? Snooker based fellowship.

Once more to the breach, dear friends. Once more....


...(wipes tear from eye)... :clap:


rofl

Re: Bank of Beijing China Open Final !!!!

Postby Cloud Strife

SnookerFan wrote:
Cloud Strife wrote:
If Roland can't be fussed with it anymore I think a good solution would be to hand the forum over to someone else (as long as that person isn't Wild) to run. I've seen various forums change owners over the years so it can be done.

To simply switch it off would be such a waste, IMO.


There are financial costs to running this forum, aren't there?

Not saying we shouldn't hand it over to somebody, just mentioning it as a consideration.


dan-cat has already offered to bankroll the takeover. :gag:

Re: Bank of Beijing China Open Final !!!!

Postby Wildey

Cloud Strife wrote:
Wildey wrote:
eraserhead wrote:No ones slagging Selby off he played great in the last few frames and was solid for what I saw. I just think it's silly to start putting him above Williams.

Also Selby gets the less stick on here than others no one comes out in defence of Allen, Murphy or Trump.

i think its double standards people rate Ronnie above Hendry 7 or 8 years ago when he quite clearly wasent....

Yes Williams has won more Tournaments but Selby has done enough on that scenario to be classed as his equal.


It's not double standards at all. The reasoning people used to justify putting Ronnie ahead of Hendry 7 years ago was Hendry played in a supposed weaker era than Ronnie therefore his achievements are not as great as Ronnie's despite winning more.

Well, the same reasoning is being used here. Selby even if (big if) he wins more than Williams he won't be ahead of him because Williams won his title in a far harder era.

These debates about who's better than who were never simply about the amount of titles won. If they were then there wouldn't be a debate to start with.

Again, this is all opinion and nobody is slagging anyone off.

Therefore you could argue 3 of Ronnies World titles was won in a weaker Era.

and Just for the record during that strong era Mark Williams was the Best player in the World not Ronnie or John Higgins so that must make williams the GOAT.