Post a reply

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Higgins v Williams !!

Postby SteveJJ

Andre147 wrote:
TheRocket wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:I'd have no objection to Williams being player of the season.


He definitely is. The world title alone is like worth of 5 rankers. Ronnie on the other hand is a very strong second. Probably the best second best player we've ever seen in a season.


Fully agree.

Selby probably comes in 3rd place because he won 2 of the biggest rankers too, and Higgins comes 4th having reached the World Final and 2 other titles.


I'd say Ryan Day would be in the mix for 3rd or 4th best.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Higgins v Williams !!

Postby Ronnie79

Higgins must be sickened last year was way in front and got gimped. This year 14-7 and 15-10 down pulls it back to 15 all he surely must have thought he had it. Would be hard to make 3 finals on the spin for any player these day never mind after gimpings like that. Sore ones

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Higgins v Williams !!

Postby Andre147

I think last year was harder to take for Higgins. He even said that was his most heartbreaking defeat.

He was 10-4 up on that one remember... here, yes he did extremelly well to recover, but the damage was done in the 3rd session, and Higgins left himself with far too much to do, so I think this defeat is easier to take than the one he lost to Selby when he really should have won it.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Higgins v Williams !!

Postby vodkadiet

Not the best final until Higgins came roaring back, but in the end it was entertaining. Williams held his nerve well.

Not a fan of Williams overall and he got lucky with the draw and players didn't play well against him.

He is nowhere near the player he was 15-20 years ago and this is an indictment of today's generation of players.

They should change the qualification criteria for The Seniors after this debacle of a tournament. I would say 60 should be the youngest you can play.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Higgins v Williams !!

Postby Andre147

I make two huge turning points in the final... when Higgins was 8-7 down he had already done well to recover and about to level the match again, until he missed a black off its spot that killed his momentum. From there he found himself 14-7 down.

And then at 15-15, when all the hard work to recover was done, he misses that simple pink to left middle and that gave MJW confidence.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Higgins v Williams !!

Postby Iranu

Andre147 wrote:I think last year was harder to take for Higgins. He even said that was his most heartbreaking defeat.

He was 10-4 up on that one remember... here, yes he did extremelly well to recover, but the damage was done in the 3rd session, and Higgins left himself with far too much to do, so I think this defeat is easier to take than the one he lost to Selby when he really should have won it.

I agree this year is easier to take for Higgins because there was no point where he'd have felt he "should" win it.

Last year he let it slip so no doubt would have felt worse. This year he did extremely well to make it as close as he did considering how far behind he was.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Higgins v Williams !!

Postby Iranu

Andre147 wrote:I make two huge turning points in the final... when Higgins was 8-7 down he had already done well to recover and about to level the match again, until he missed a black off its spot that killed his momentum. From there he found himself 14-7 down.

And then at 15-15, when all the hard work to recover was done, he misses that simple pink to left middle and that gave MJW confidence.

Totally agree again.

I wouldn't say the pink was easy though, it was always missable. Certainly more difficult than the pink Williams missed to win 18-15!

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Higgins v Williams !!

Postby eraserhead

Andre147 wrote:I make two huge turning points in the final... when Higgins was 8-7 down he had already done well to recover and about to level the match again, until he missed a black off its spot that killed his momentum. From there he found himself 14-7 down.

And then at 15-15, when all the hard work to recover was done, he misses that simple pink to left middle and that gave MJW confidence.

There was slso when he planted the brown into the top right corner. Gifted MJW a frame there.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Higgins v Williams !!

Postby vodkadiet

Andre147 wrote:I make two huge turning points in the final... when Higgins was 8-7 down he had already done well to recover and about to level the match again, until he missed a black off its spot that killed his momentum. From there he found himself 14-7 down.

And then at 15-15, when all the hard work to recover was done, he misses that simple pink to left middle and that gave MJW confidence.


It was a red he missed to the middle.

I think the bad shot Higgins played at the start of the 15-15 frame was crucial. It cost him 41 points, and then Williams missed a red by a mile and only left Higgins a half chance, which he couldn't take.

If Higgins had been zoned in from the start he would have won. When it gets to 15-15 it comes down to luck in many respects. Williams had the run in the last few frames.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Higgins v Williams !!

Postby Iranu

vodkadiet wrote:
Andre147 wrote:I make two huge turning points in the final... when Higgins was 8-7 down he had already done well to recover and about to level the match again, until he missed a black off its spot that killed his momentum. From there he found himself 14-7 down.

And then at 15-15, when all the hard work to recover was done, he misses that simple pink to left middle and that gave MJW confidence.


It was a red he missed to the middle.

I think the bad shot Higgins played at the start of the 15-15 frame was crucial. It cost him 41 points, and then Williams missed a red by a mile and only left Higgins a half chance, which he couldn't take.

If Higgins had been zoned in from the start he would have won. When it gets to 15-15 it comes down to luck in many respects. Williams had the run in the last few frames.

Higgins had the run in the frames from 15-10 to 15-15. When he did miss or break down, he only left Williams half chances at best.

I think reducing the final to luck is a bit unfair to both sides personally. You could argue Williams was unlucky with pretty much every split he tried, but in the end you'd have to say he just wasn't playing them well.

Higgins played great stuff to come back level, and Williams played great stuff to close out 18-16.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Higgins v Williams !!

Postby eraserhead

We can boil it down to single moments but MJW did what he had to, capitalise on Higgins bad sessions and keep himself together. Higgins was always playing catch up. Best thing with a lead is, if things start going bad you have time to recover.

Sad thing is if I was Ding or Judd I'd be kicking myself. At some point they need to step up in the big tournaments. Ronnie, John and MJW still proving themselves to be a class apart.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Higgins v Williams !!

Postby vodkadiet

Iranu wrote:
vodkadiet wrote:
Andre147 wrote:I make two huge turning points in the final... when Higgins was 8-7 down he had already done well to recover and about to level the match again, until he missed a black off its spot that killed his momentum. From there he found himself 14-7 down.

And then at 15-15, when all the hard work to recover was done, he misses that simple pink to left middle and that gave MJW confidence.


It was a red he missed to the middle.

I think the bad shot Higgins played at the start of the 15-15 frame was crucial. It cost him 41 points, and then Williams missed a red by a mile and only left Higgins a half chance, which he couldn't take.

If Higgins had been zoned in from the start he would have won. When it gets to 15-15 it comes down to luck in many respects. Williams had the run in the last few frames.

Higgins had the run in the frames from 15-10 to 15-15. When he did miss or break down, he only left Williams half chances at best.

I think reducing the final to luck is a bit unfair to both sides personally. You could argue Williams was unlucky with pretty much every split he tried, but in the end you'd have to say he just wasn't playing them well.

Higgins played great stuff to come back level, and Williams played great stuff to close out 18-16.


Fair comment.

Anyway, it was the win that counts. Snooker is a game where luck plays a large part. Sometimes you get it, and sometimes you don't.
Last edited by vodkadiet on 08 May 2018, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Higgins v Williams !!

Postby Iranu

Just further to my and Vodka's discussion of luck: I think a lot of younger players would have used "luck" as a crutch if they experienced what Williams went through this evening.

Seeing Higgins coming back at them and only leaving half-chances when he broke down, someone like Judd or Ding would have seen that and said "this just isn't my day, everything's going against me," and that could be the excuse they needed to allow themselves to falter and go on to lose.

But Williams, as he says in his press conference, just thought "You're playing well, just make a frame winning break next chance you get," even after missing that easy pink.

That to me is the difference between the class of '92 and the next generation. And that's why they are failing to step up when it really matters.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Higgins v Williams !!

Postby eraserhead

Iranu wrote:
eraserhead wrote:Just watched Mark's interview with Rob Walker. Perfect end to the world snooker championship for me.

Once again MJW :hatoff: :win:

Do you have a link to this please?

Really sorry, trying to find it but can't. I've been drinking since the end of the session this afternoon so that's probably why. <laugh> :emb:

Thought I saw it on prosnookerblog or snookerbackers twitter but am unable to find it now.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Higgins v Williams !!

Postby Iranu

Wildey wrote:Many on here thought Mark had lost his bottle and when it got close he couldnt seal the deal how wrong can you get rofl

For me, it wasn't about Williams' bottle it was about Higgins' strength. I thought Higgins would find a way to win as he has so many times before.

I'll admit though that I wasn't expecting that break at 17-16. That was incredible.

So Wild, I know you've said previously about how the Higgins/Williams final says a lot about young players. But what did you think about the match?

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Higgins v Williams !!

Postby Iranu

Pink Ball wrote:
Wildey wrote:Many on here thought Mark had lost his bottle and when it got close he couldnt seal the deal how wrong can you get rofl

I'm convinced most people on here weren't watching when Williams was in his prime!

I wasn't. My first vivid snooker memory is 2004, and I didn't want religiously until a few years after that.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Higgins v Williams !!

Postby Pink Ball

Iranu wrote:
Wildey wrote:Many on here thought Mark had lost his bottle and when it got close he couldnt seal the deal how wrong can you get rofl

For me, it wasn't about Williams' bottle it was about Higgins' strength. I thought Higgins would find a way to win as he has so many times before.

I'll admit though that I wasn't expecting that break at 17-16. That was incredible.

So Wild, I know you've said previously about how the Higgins/Williams final says a lot about young players. But what did you think about the match?

You didn't ask me, but I thought it was a great match and I really enjoyed it. But it says a lot, all of it negative, about the young guys.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Higgins v Williams !!

Postby Pink Ball

Iranu wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
Wildey wrote:Many on here thought Mark had lost his bottle and when it got close he couldnt seal the deal how wrong can you get rofl

I'm convinced most people on here weren't watching when Williams was in his prime!

I wasn't. My first vivid snooker memory is 2004, and I didn't want religiously until a few years after that.

No problem, nothing wrong with that! We all had to start somewhere! What was annoying me was guys going on about how Williams had to score heavily, because he's never been a heavy scorer, ever! He won a Welsh Open without a break over 70 for goodness sake!