Post a reply

Re: Dafabet Masters Final : Ronnie O'Sullivan v Judd Trump

Postby D4P

If you believe what Ronnie says his A-game has been missing for quite awhile, and that's largely what has motivated him to "reinvent" his game with Steve Feeney. In Ronnie's mind, I think he believes that he still has a ways to go before the SightRight stuff takes its full effect, and he warned everyone before this season started that they shouldn't set their expectations too high.

His fantastic performance so far this season might be an indication that SightRight has already kicked in, or it might just be a result of the fact that he's good enough to win with his B-game and that he will need more time to get back to the level that he wants to play at.

Re: Dafabet Masters Final : Ronnie O'Sullivan v Judd Trump

Postby Cloud Strife

Badsnookerplayer wrote:Judd will feel very confident playing Ronnie in the future.

I agree with Wild's point about players thinking they have to play perfect against him.

Even Mark Davis showed that if you assert yourself and stick to your usual game then he is quite beatable.

However, his aura remains and I am sure many players will continue to fold against him in the future. This then perpetuates the myth of invincibility


rofl Let's not carried away here.

We all know why Mark Davis won that match at the English Open and it had nothing to do with "asserting yourself" and "sticking to your usual game".

Re: Dafabet Masters Final : Ronnie O'Sullivan v Judd Trump

Postby Badsnookerplayer

Cloud Strife wrote:
Badsnookerplayer wrote:Judd will feel very confident playing Ronnie in the future.

I agree with Wild's point about players thinking they have to play perfect against him.

Even Mark Davis showed that if you assert yourself and stick to your usual game then he is quite beatable.

However, his aura remains and I am sure many players will continue to fold against him in the future. This then perpetuates the myth of invincibility


rofl Let's not carried away here.

We all know why Mark Davis won that match at the English Open and it had nothing to do with "asserting yourself" and "sticking to your usual game".

Do elaborate Cloud...

Re: Dafabet Masters Final : Ronnie O'Sullivan v Judd Trump

Postby Wildey

Badsnookerplayer wrote:I agree about his scoring totally Eraser.

Are you saying that Judd only won because Ronnie had a bad day.
i.e. Judd had no influence on it being a bad day.

Sorry but if people are saying that they are talking bullocks and has no understanding of top level sport.


Judd put Ronnie on the back foot from the off and he put the pressure on Ronnie and that is why Ronnie crumbled to 7-1.

Re: Dafabet Masters Final : Ronnie O'Sullivan v Judd Trump

Postby Badsnookerplayer

TheRocket wrote:A- game ROS vs A- game Trump 10:7 / 10:8

A- game ROS vs B- game Trump 10:4 / 10:5

A- game ROS vs C-game Trump 10:2 / 10:3

A-game Trump vs B-game ROS 10:7/ 10:8

A- game Turmp vs C-game ROS 10:4/ 10:5

I understand the gist of this Rocket but it assumes that bringing your A game is independent of what your opponent does.

In practice, whether somebody can find their A game is influenced by what their opponent does.

Re: Dafabet Masters Final : Ronnie O'Sullivan v Judd Trump

Postby D4P

Wildey wrote:
Badsnookerplayer wrote:I agree about his scoring totally Eraser.

Are you saying that Judd only won because Ronnie had a bad day.
i.e. Judd had no influence on it being a bad day.

Sorry but if people are saying that they are talking bullocks and has no understanding of top level sport.


Judd put Ronnie on the back foot from the off and he put the pressure on Ronnie and that is why Ronnie crumbled to 7-1.


...with the addendum that Ronnie hadn't really been playing well all week, and was therefore presumably unlikely to play well in the final.

Re: Dafabet Masters Final : Ronnie O'Sullivan v Judd Trump

Postby Wildey

Badsnookerplayer wrote:
TheRocket wrote:A- game ROS vs A- game Trump 10:7 / 10:8

A- game ROS vs B- game Trump 10:4 / 10:5

A- game ROS vs C-game Trump 10:2 / 10:3

A-game Trump vs B-game ROS 10:7/ 10:8

A- game Turmp vs C-game ROS 10:4/ 10:5

I understand the gist of this Rocket but it assumes that bringing your A game is independent of what your opponent does.

In practice, whether somebody can find their A game is influenced by what their opponent does.

EXACTLY <ok>

Snooker is probably the only Sport where you can Play your Absolute Best Ronnie included but if you dont get the chances you lose.

Re: Dafabet Masters Final : Ronnie O'Sullivan v Judd Trump

Postby eraserhead

Badsnookerplayer wrote:I agree about his scoring totally Eraser.

Are you saying that Judd only won because Ronnie had a bad day.
i.e. Judd had no influence on it being a bad day.

I'm saying Judd played well but it was evident in frame 3 with the red he missed Ronnie wasn't near his best. I commented in Judd's semi that Judd has been scoring heavier than Ronnie this tournament. That is unusual, and Ronnie just couldn't put a decent break together in the first session.


An impressive tournament and win for Judd because he punished Ronnie's mistakes and his potting, tactical and safety game was class. Not taking anything away from that.
Last edited by eraserhead on 21 Jan 2019, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Dafabet Masters Final : Ronnie O'Sullivan v Judd Trump

Postby Wildey

D4P wrote:
Wildey wrote:
Badsnookerplayer wrote:I agree about his scoring totally Eraser.

Are you saying that Judd only won because Ronnie had a bad day.
i.e. Judd had no influence on it being a bad day.

Sorry but if people are saying that they are talking bullocks and has no understanding of top level sport.


Judd put Ronnie on the back foot from the off and he put the pressure on Ronnie and that is why Ronnie crumbled to 7-1.


...with the addendum that Ronnie hadn't really been playing well all week, and was therefore presumably unlikely to play well in the final.

He didn't play that Well in the UK and won it because of this 80% Psychological edge he has over most

Re: Dafabet Masters Final : Ronnie O'Sullivan v Judd Trump

Postby D4P

Wildey wrote:
D4P wrote:
Wildey wrote:
Badsnookerplayer wrote:I agree about his scoring totally Eraser.

Are you saying that Judd only won because Ronnie had a bad day.
i.e. Judd had no influence on it being a bad day.

Sorry but if people are saying that they are talking bullocks and has no understanding of top level sport.


Judd put Ronnie on the back foot from the off and he put the pressure on Ronnie and that is why Ronnie crumbled to 7-1.


...with the addendum that Ronnie hadn't really been playing well all week, and was therefore presumably unlikely to play well in the final.

He didn't play that Well in the UK and won it because of this 80% Psychological edge he has over most


Yes, and his weak draw also helped a lot.

Re: Dafabet Masters Final : Ronnie O'Sullivan v Judd Trump

Postby Wildey

eraserhead wrote:
Badsnookerplayer wrote:I agree about his scoring totally Eraser.

Are you saying that Judd only won because Ronnie had a bad day.
i.e. Judd had no influence on it being a bad day.

I'm saying Judd played well but it was evident in frame 3 with the red he missed Ronnie wasn't near his best. I commented in Judd's semi that Judd has been scoring heavier than Ronnie this tournament. That is unusual, and Ronnie just couldn't put a decent break together in the first session.


An impressive tournament and win for Judd because he punished Ronnie's mistakes and his potting, tactical and safety game was class. Not taking anything away from that.

Mate Ronnie would pot that Red with 1 hand behind his back no matter how he was playing seriously if your pointing to that simple red to indicate his form then your losing this argument hands down

Re: Dafabet Masters Final : Ronnie O'Sullivan v Judd Trump

Postby Badsnookerplayer

D4P wrote:
Wildey wrote:
D4P wrote:
Wildey wrote:
Badsnookerplayer wrote:I agree about his scoring totally Eraser.

Are you saying that Judd only won because Ronnie had a bad day.
i.e. Judd had no influence on it being a bad day.

Sorry but if people are saying that they are talking bullocks and has no understanding of top level sport.


Judd put Ronnie on the back foot from the off and he put the pressure on Ronnie and that is why Ronnie crumbled to 7-1.


...with the addendum that Ronnie hadn't really been playing well all week, and was therefore presumably unlikely to play well in the final.

He didn't play that Well in the UK and won it because of this 80% Psychological edge he has over most


Yes, and his weak draw also helped a lot.

Yeah the draw was pitiful, but he still had to win tough in the final.

Re: Dafabet Masters Final : Ronnie O'Sullivan v Judd Trump

Postby TheRocket

Badsnookerplayer wrote:
TheRocket wrote:A- game ROS vs A- game Trump 10:7 / 10:8

A- game ROS vs B- game Trump 10:4 / 10:5

A- game ROS vs C-game Trump 10:2 / 10:3

A-game Trump vs B-game ROS 10:7/ 10:8

A- game Turmp vs C-game ROS 10:4/ 10:5

I understand the gist of this Rocket but it assumes that bringing your A game is independent of what your opponent does.

In practice, whether somebody can find their A game is influenced by what their opponent does.


I know what you mean but with Trump and ROS you have two players who have a similar style of play (attacking). One player won't drag the other down by playing safety or a tactical game but rather inspire his opponent to do what he does and win the frames in one visit.

So in this match up, if both have a good day they can play at their best at the same time. More than in any other match up. Like it was with ROS and Hendry.

Watch the CoC 2014 final.

Re: Dafabet Masters Final : Ronnie O'Sullivan v Judd Trump

Postby Ash147

I don’t even think Ronnie played that badly. It’s very difficult to assess his first session performance, purely because of how Judd dominated it. Ronnie wasn’t getting the long pots, and missed a few easy shots, but he really didn’t have that many opportunities to get going. He looked very good when he got his rhythm going in the second session, that was outlined with the two centuries he made.

It wouldn’t have mattered how Ronnie had played, Judd would have still won. Yesterday was the best I’ve ever seen him play.

Re: Dafabet Masters Final : Ronnie O'Sullivan v Judd Trump

Postby eraserhead

Wildey wrote:Mate Ronnie would pot that Red with 1 hand behind his back no matter how he was playing seriously if your pointing to that simple red to indicate his form then your losing this argument hands down

I don't think Ronnie would have been that bothered by the first two frames Judd won them fair and square, at 4-0 the pressure was much bigger and probably affected how Ronnie played. It's possible for me to respect the way Judd was playing and think Ronnie had a bad day.

Re: Dafabet Masters Final : Ronnie O'Sullivan v Judd Trump

Postby Wildey

Basically Whats being said Here

When Ronnie Loses its because he was playing rubbish
When Ronnie wins its because hes played brilliantly


No credit given to his opponent at all

Re: Dafabet Masters Final : Ronnie O'Sullivan v Judd Trump

Postby Wildey

eraserhead wrote:
Wildey wrote:Mate Ronnie would pot that Red with 1 hand behind his back no matter how he was playing seriously if your pointing to that simple red to indicate his form then your losing this argument hands down

I don't think Ronnie would have been that bothered by the first two frames Judd won them fair and square, at 4-0 the pressure was much bigger and probably affected how Ronnie played. It's possible for me to respect the way Judd was playing and think Ronnie had a bad day.

Do you think Ronnie would have missed that red in frame 3 had he had chances in frame 1 and 2 because i don't Ronnie was 2-0 down in theory frame 3 was his 1st frame because he had no chance in the first 2.

Re: Dafabet Masters Final : Ronnie O'Sullivan v Judd Trump

Postby Ash147

D4P wrote:
Ash147 wrote:It wouldn’t have mattered how Ronnie had played, Judd would have still won. Yesterday was the best I’ve ever seen him play.


...which is interesting, because his high break was only 89...


He still scored impressively. Breaks of 89, 87, 56, 66, 66, 88, 68, 53.

On top of that his safety play and shot selection was superb. It was the complete package.

Re: Dafabet Masters Final : Ronnie O'Sullivan v Judd Trump

Postby SnookerFan

Cloud Strife wrote:
Badsnookerplayer wrote:Judd will feel very confident playing Ronnie in the future.

I agree with Wild's point about players thinking they have to play perfect against him.

Even Mark Davis showed that if you assert yourself and stick to your usual game then he is quite beatable.

However, his aura remains and I am sure many players will continue to fold against him in the future. This then perpetuates the myth of invincibility


rofl Let's not carried away here.

We all know why Mark Davis won that match at the English Open and it had nothing to do with "asserting yourself" and "sticking to your usual game".


It was because Ronnie didn't parakeet. <ok>

Re: Dafabet Masters Final : Ronnie O'Sullivan v Judd Trump

Postby D4P

Ash147 wrote:
D4P wrote:
Ash147 wrote:It wouldn’t have mattered how Ronnie had played, Judd would have still won. Yesterday was the best I’ve ever seen him play.


...which is interesting, because his high break was only 89...


He still scored impressively. Breaks of 89, 87, 56, 66, 66, 88, 68, 53.

On top of that his safety play and shot selection was superb. It was the complete package.


Yes. I think Judd at his best would/will probably make fewer centuries, in large part because he would attempt fewer ill-advised shots to keep the break going.

Re: Dafabet Masters Final : Ronnie O'Sullivan v Judd Trump

Postby eraserhead

Wildey wrote:Do you think Ronnie would have missed that red in frame 3 had he had chances in frame 1 and 2 because i don't Ronnie was 2-0 down in theory frame 3 was his 1st frame because he had no chance in the first 2.

Exactly, that's all I meant about Ronnie not playing at his best. He's not going to be shook by Judd knocking in two big breaks enough to miss that red, just saying there were early signs that his form wasn't quite there. I'm not trying to take anything away from Judd because he was brilliant yesterday.

Re: Dafabet Masters Final : Ronnie O'Sullivan v Judd Trump

Postby TheRocket

Wildey wrote:
Badsnookerplayer wrote:I agree about his scoring totally Eraser.

Are you saying that Judd only won because Ronnie had a bad day.
i.e. Judd had no influence on it being a bad day.

Sorry but if people are saying that they are talking bullocks and has no understanding of top level sport.


Judd put Ronnie on the back foot from the off and he put the pressure on Ronnie and that is why Ronnie crumbled to 7-1.



The point is. If Ronnie was in good form he wouldnt have crumbled to a 7:1 deficite and folded.

He would have immediately responded after Trump started to make mistakes which he did a few from the third frame on. But Ronnie didnt take advantage and couldnt cope with the pressure.

Thats why its more than justified to say that he didnt play well.

Re: Dafabet Masters Final : Ronnie O'Sullivan v Judd Trump

Postby Johnny Bravo

Are u people still talking about the final ?! :hmmm: :? :? :?

It ended a while ago. <laugh>

Judd won, ROS lost.
Judd played great from the get go and punished ROS's mistakes.
ROS struggled from the get go and didn't punish any of Judd's mistakes in the first session. I know he was under pressure and with his back against the wall, but even when he got easy openers and was among the reds, he couldn't score heavy enough.
He improved slightly and played better in the second session. But it was too little too late.

Congrats Trump for the win, he looks like he's matured as a player and that was obvious from his shot selection. The extra practice is also evident.

ROS has lost before, but he'll be back. He still has 2 or 3 years at the top of the game, therefore many more chances to win titles. Yesterday was just a bad day at the office.

Re: Dafabet Masters Final : Ronnie O'Sullivan v Judd Trump

Postby Badsnookerplayer

Somebody made the point about Judd making less centuries.

The point has been made elsewhere and it is a good one. In the past Judd has broken down on the 50-60 mark regularly as he has pushed the boat out with a risky attempt at a pot. This has led to frames being lost to counter-clearances and sapping his morale.

He has done that less recently, choosing a good safety shot to keep the pressure on his opponent and not take a risky pot on.

This will likely lead to less centuries but more frames won.

Re: Dafabet Masters Final : Ronnie O'Sullivan v Judd Trump

Postby eraserhead

Ash147 wrote:
eraserhead wrote:One thing about Judd. I find him very hard to access. He looks more comfortable in finals then he does in the match before the finals.


Why are you trying to access him? :limp:

Strictly scientific purposes. :limp2: