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Re: Ronnie’s the GOAT, But Not the GOAT You Were Looking For

Postby TheSaviour

Yes but everyone still deserves at least some normal people-contacts. I really can´t agree that absolutely everyone needs to know all what Ronnie or Saviour is or has been doing.

Some people are always going to be rubbishing the game and the sport. But there still can be some normal contacts also.

Just try to use your brains a bit. Ronnie still looks great. But that doesn´t need to the end of the world.

I can´t help if I would had been Adolf Hitler´s wet daydream lol. And that´s what all the labelling is all about. When actually I couldn´t care less doing something Adolf Hitler would had wanted me to do. So that´s what all the labelling and nominating is always all about. I just can´t help if I would had been Adolf Hitler´s wet daydream. Just like Ronnie can´t help if he is someone likes Pink Ball´s or Wildey´s wet daydream. Just think, think, think! Would or does Pink Ball or Wild want´s that there would been a constant stream of breaking news going on, or the rubbish-talking going on... A new innovation, yes. A many, yes. Some rubbish-talking once again, yes. But still, come on. That´s what all the labelling is all about. Some person might be some other´s wet daydream and there´s the labelling and nominating soon going on.

Re: Ronnie’s the GOAT, But Not the GOAT You Were Looking For

Postby Andre147

Cloud Strife wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:Finally someone who states the obvious:
https://metro.co.uk/2019/04/24/jimmy-wh ... ore-item-3


Very harsh from Jimmy there, but can't disagree with anything says. It's about time someone close to Ronnie told him a few home truths. He's been too coddled recently.


Jimmy is 100% spot on.

By the time Ronnie really put a great effort to win the match, it was already too late. If he had that mindset from the off he would have easily won that match 10-3 or 10-4. And no disrespect to Cahill here, but in most frames Ronnie kept giving him 5 or 6 chances a frame.

Re: Ronnie’s the GOAT, But Not the GOAT You Were Looking For

Postby Ash147

SnookerFan wrote:
Ash147 wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:
Ash147 wrote:God I hate the way Kyren Wilson walks into the shot. He must be the most robotic player on tour.


So, you don't consider him the GOAT?


Wrong thread. <doh>


You are not the GOAT at posting.


I might bungke occasionally, but at least I don’t blomb into women who sell programmes.

Re: Ronnie’s the GOAT, But Not the GOAT You Were Looking For

Postby vodkadiet1

Koninkaulus wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:
vodkadiet1 wrote:So the UK or The Masters is equal to The World Championships?

Is winning The Italian Open in tennis equal to winning The French Open?


You're comparing apples to oranges.

The Australian Open and US Open are not quite as prestigious as Wimblendon and Rolland Garros, yet they are all count the same, all are counted as majors.


There is virtually no difference in prestige between the four Grand Slam tournaments and hasn't been for decades. If you insist on finding the slightest differences, the US Open would be marginally ahead of Roland Garros. Again, this is basically negligible.

In snooker, there is one massive tournament and a bunch of smaller ones. Almost all of the other ranking tournaments are closer to the UK in terms of prestige than the UK is to the World Championship. The Masters is nowhere close either.

In fact, Vodkadiet's analogy was perfectly valid. There is one tournament clearly above the rest in snooker whereas tennis has four. The Italian Open is a Masters 1000 tournament, which is exactly the level of the UK Championship in relation to the World Championship.


Koninkaulus

You speak words of wisdom.

:hatoff:

Re: Ronnie’s the GOAT, But Not the GOAT You Were Looking For

Postby vodkadiet1

Johnny Bravo wrote:Although I've lost hope ROS will ever win another WC, I still consider him the GOAT and I'll explain why.

At this point in time, I think everyone on this forum agrees that Ronnie can play the game to a higher standard than every other player in history.
That makes him the BEST ever.

However, that's not the same with being the GREATEST.
Greatness is defined by a mix of factors, out of which achievements is the most important one.
So, judging by this criteria, it would seem that Hendry is the greatest.

However, that is not the case. And the reason I say that is very simple. 7 might be bigger than 5, but Hendry only won 7 cause he faced weaker competition. Had he turned pro at the same time as the class of 92, he would never have won more than 3 or 4 WC.


Holden makes a very good point in his boxing example. Marciano has an impecable record and he retired undefeated, yet he never faced the type of opposition Ali, Foreman or Tyson did.

As great as he was, if Marciano would have fought Ali, he wouldn't have laid a glove on him. Ali would have outpointed him all night.
And had Marciano fought Tyson or Foreman, in the best case scenario he would have ended up in intensive care. Worst case, he ends up in the morgue.

ROS is the GOAT. He can play to a higher standard than anyone else, he's still the best player in the world in his 40's and he holds all the records, bar the WC titles.
His Crucible failures in recent years have made us Ronnetes very sad, but that doesn't change his status.

ROS is the GOAT. Simple as that.


If Tyson or Foreman had fought an amateur they would no doubt have been put in a coma! And how can you say Marciano wouldn't haven't beaten Tyson or Foreman? Maybe he would? Maybe he wouldn't?

Would have....Could have.... Should have.... :xmas1:

Re: Ronnie’s the GOAT, But Not the GOAT You Were Looking For

Postby SavoMilosevic

TheRocket wrote:There are no underachievers. Everything happens for a reason.

Williams is a great player but he is not in the O'Sullivan/Hendry bracket.

Higgins is a great matchplayer but he's not capable to wipe out his opponents the way O'Sullivan or Hendry could. He always has to go through a tough battle to win matches.

And with Ronnie its the mental side of the game which has been his biggest weakness. Thats why he's still stuck on 5 world titles.


Williams' highest level is up there with the very best in my opinion. He's not as deadly breakbuilder as Ronnie and Hendry but he possesses other assets which they don't have, e.g. he is a true master of the scrappy frame and can win matches both ways (with big breaks and ugly).

You can see him with 87% pot success and highest break of 40 and you wouldn't be surprised if he's leading. In last year's final he was 4-0 up on Higgins with a highest break of 42 or something. Hendry and Ronnie (even post Steve Peters) get very impatient and frustrated when they can't win the way they want and often fall to pieces if the game gets scrappy.

Add to that MJW's incredible long potting, single-ball potting (as DT calls it), tactical astuteness with which he can outplay even Higgins or Selby and his fantastic temperament and attitude towards the game (I give my best, but it's no big deal if i lose) and you can easily see why he won everything in 2002-2003 and is an all-time great.

Let's just remind you that ROS only once won more than 1 "Major" in a season (2007-2008 when he won both the Worlds and the UK) while MJW completed the Grand Slam in 2003 and is the only one to do so besides Hendry and Davis.

Re: Ronnie’s the GOAT, But Not the GOAT You Were Looking For

Postby chengdufan

D4P wrote:In the Bible’s New Testament, we are told the story of a man named Jesus who a few thousand years ago claimed to be the messiah and savior who would liberate the Jews and set them free from their captors. But the Jews largely rejected him because he didn’t fit their picture of what a savior should look and act like. He served others rather than requiring others to serve him. He didn’t fight against his enemies, but instead loved and prayed for them. He didn’t physically free the Jews, but instead offered them spiritual salvation. In short, he wasn’t the savior they were looking for.

In today’s world of sports, fans don’t look for a savior so much as they look for a GOAT, a player that checks all their boxes for being dubbed the Greatest of All-Time. In the sport of snooker, fans expect the GOAT to act a certain way and to achieve certain things. The GOAT should take interviews seriously and give responses that are respectful, polished, and filtered. The GOAT should avoid controversy and negative publicity. The GOAT should take every match seriously and try his hardest to win. The GOAT should be excited when he wins and disappointed when he loses. The GOAT should play in most of the events during the year and should always give 100% to every event he plays in. The GOAT should have more tournaments wins in his career than other players and above all, the GOAT should win the most World Snooker Championships (WSCs).

Ronnie O’Sullivan might not check any of those boxes or meet any of those expectations. Yet, there are many people in the sport who consider him to be the GOAT. How can that be? If Ronnie is the GOAT, he’s a bit like Jesus: He’s not the GOAT snooker fans were looking for.

If Ronnie has a defining characteristic, it is a need for autonomy. He needs to feel like he is living life according to his own rules and standards. He needs to decide for himself whether to give serious responses to interview questions or whether to talk instead like a robot or a bushman from Down Under. He needs to decide for himself whether his performance in a match was brilliant or rubbish. He needs to decide for himself whether he wants to give 100% or whether he’s just not in the mood to try his hardest. He needs to set his own tournament schedule to fit his lifestyle, rather than chasing Ranking Points from here to Timbuktu and back every week. And he needs to decide for himself which events he thinks are important and worthy of his time and effort, rather than being told by WorldSnooker or the fans that such and such event is the most important and counts more than any other.

When Ronnie is told that the WSC is the most important event and that every snooker player should want to win the WSC more than any other event, there is a fundamental part of Ronnie’s brain that rebels. He will decide which events are most important to him, thank you very much. He won’t be told by someone else which events he should value the most.

And therein lies the catch for Ronnie and his fans who want him to be considered the GOAT of snooker: Whenever Ronnie thinks about winning the WSC, he also thinks about how he has to conform to external expectations by investing 17 days’ worth of hard work into winning an event that other people think is important but that he has never really enjoyed or cared as much about as other people have. Trying to win the WSC makes Ronnie feel like he’s being bossed or controlled by other people, which is something that Ronnie simply won’t tolerate. He would rather quit and give up than be controlled by someone else.

All of which means that when Ronnie shows up at the WSC, he faces a conflict between wanting to win the event that he is playing in vs. not wanting to conform to the expectations that other people place on him. I think it’s fair to say that, more often than not throughout his career, Ronnie has chosen to avoid conforming even if it meant losing. And Ronnie has been happy making that choice.

Which leaves Ronnie fans in a bit of a quandary. We want him to win WSCs, and we want him to be unanimously considered the GOAT. But he simply refuses to conform to our expectations of what the GOAT should look like, which can leave us frustrated and disappointed.

The bottom line is that if you are going to be a Ronnie fan and if you want to be happy rather than frustrated and disappointed, you need to accept him as he is, rather than expecting him to be something he’s not. He’s never going to care about the WSC as much as everyone else does, and he’s probably never going to win it as many times as Hendry/Davis/Reardon have done. And he’s not going to care about that. You probably shouldn’t care about it, either.

In my opinion, Ronnie is the GOAT. He’s just not the GOAT that many people were looking for.

This was a great post to open a thread.
What a shame that so many of the comments which followed completely missed the point.
I guess many people just saw Ronnie and goat in the title and didn't take the time to read what it was actually about.