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Re: World Snooker International Championship Final !!

Postby Ash147 » 14 Aug 2019 Read

Iranu wrote:
Cloud Strife wrote:Reanne, if she makes it, will get spanked live on national television, further highlighting the disparity between the women's tour and the main tour. Not sure what purpose that will serve, but there you go.

Exposure, normalisation etc. Girls watching who may not even have considered that snooker’s something they could do seeing a woman in a high profile tournament with the best in the world. Even if she gets spanked, it’s still exposure.

I disagree that rankings should be used to top up the places (unless absolutely necessary). Players get enough chances to get into limited field tournaments based on rankings, with Shanghai, The Masters, the Coral Series. Using rankings would make a mockery of the tournament’s name.


Wouldn't it be a better inspiration for young women to see a woman who has got her way onto the main tour through hard work?

All this tells young women is that they need hand-outs to compete with the men.

Re: World Snooker International Championship Final !!

Postby SnookerFan » 14 Aug 2019 Read

Cloud Strife wrote:Reanne, if she makes it, will get spanked live on national television, further highlighting the disparity between the women's tour and the main tour. Not sure what purpose that will serve, but there you go.


The purpose is that it'll bring publicity, which'll be good for the game.

The game gets plenty of television coverage, but very little attention from newspapers, and only really gets mentioned on the news if it's a big event. Or if Ronnie says something daft. Having a female play, the media will be all over it. If more people tune in to watch her game, they might stick around to see the rest of the tournament. This isn't a bad thing. We're talking about a game here that's still heavily reliant on the gambling industry for sponsorship.

Let's get real about this, what's the worst thing that happens if she enters? Even if she gets spanked 4-0, it won't really affect the tournament that badly will it? It'll just mean one best of seven match isn't great in one tournament. The publicity generated for the game, and possible increase in viewers for ITV4 will offset that rather trivial downside.

In my opinion, this is no worse than when they kept giving Jimmy-cards at The Masters, knowing full well Jimmy White wasn't going to beat anybody in the top-16. It's done for the same reasons, publicity. If anything, the Jimmycards were worse. Because in those days, there were far, far less tournaments available, so it was taking a rare place away from somebody more deserving. At least here, she's only on reserve. So she'll only appear at the CoC if they are having trouble making up the numbers.

And who knows? Maybe having Reanne play at a few invitationals, it might encourage more young girls to start playing the game. The fact that there aren't that many high-quality female players out there is because the game isn't being exposed to young girls who might want to give it a go. Having a woman appear at a popular tournament like this can't hurt.

Re: World Snooker International Championship Final !!

Postby SnookerFan » 14 Aug 2019 Read

Ash147 wrote:Wouldn't it be a better inspiration for young women to see a woman who has got her way onto the main tour through hard work?

All this tells young women is that they need hand-outs to compete with the men.


I think you're probably reading too much into this.

She's on reserve. So she only gets there if there if they don't have enough other people to make up the numbers.

It's not a ranking event, it's a fun invitational event. So, no real point getting our panties in a wad about it.

Re: World Snooker International Championship Final !!

Postby Dan-cat » 14 Aug 2019 Read

Ash147 wrote:[

Wouldn't it be a better inspiration for young women to see a woman who has got her way onto the main tour through hard work?

All this tells young women is that they need hand-outs to compete with the men.


I agree with the first part of your post, yes of course it would be better.

As for the second, hardly - she's won the world champs 11 times or whatever! She's there because of that.

Re: World Snooker International Championship Final !!

Postby Ash147 » 14 Aug 2019 Read

Dan-cat wrote:
Ash147 wrote:[

Wouldn't it be a better inspiration for young women to see a woman who has got her way onto the main tour through hard work?

All this tells young women is that they need hand-outs to compete with the men.


I agree with the first part of your post, yes of course it would be better.

As for the second, hardly - she's won the world champs 11 times or whatever! She's there because of that.


She's won the Women's World Championship. I'd be more impressed if she won the Riga Open once.

Re: World Snooker International Championship Final !!

Postby SnookerFan » 14 Aug 2019 Read

But isn't the fact that there are so few high-quality women involved the game all the more reason why we should be promoting it?

Nobody is suggesting that Reanne should get a Wildcard onto the main tour. She's been named as a reserve for a invitational event if they can't make up the numbers.

Re: World Snooker International Championship Final !!

Postby Ash147 » 14 Aug 2019 Read

SnookerFan wrote:But isn't the fact that there are so few high-quality women involved the game all the more reason why we should be promoting it?

Nobody is suggesting that Reanne should get a Wildcard onto the main tour. She's been named as a reserve for a invitational event if they can't make up the numbers.


I don't mind them promoting it, that's perfectly reasonable. She shouldn't be considered to be in one of the seasons biggest events though. There are many far better players on the tour who could miss out on that spot because they have decided to give it to her. I don't think that's fair at all.

Re: World Snooker International Championship Final !!

Postby HappyCamper » 14 Aug 2019 Read

Ash147 wrote:
HappyCamper wrote:Main tour events have non tour players all the time. There was a quite high profile at the Crucible just a few months ago.


Yes, but they qualified for it just like everyone outside the top 16 had to. Reanne Evans has also attempted to qualify for the World Championship multiple times, but failed every time.


The Champion of Champions like many pro tour events is open to non tour tour players. This may be top up from the challenge tour, Chinese tour, local amatuer players, or other depending on the tournament.

Cahill met the qualifying criteria for the Crucible. Evans may do so for the Ricoh Arena.

Saying Evans should not be at the CoC because it is a pro tour event and she is on the women's tour and not the pro tour is not a sound argument.

Re: World Snooker International Championship Final !!

Postby Ash147 » 14 Aug 2019 Read

Dan-cat wrote:Well if they haven't won anything then why should they get a spot?

Successful Guys.


It's rare for a top 16 player to have not won a tournament. There are only two at the moment who haven't, and both of those are far superior to Reanne Evans.

Re: World Snooker International Championship Final !!

Postby SnookerFan » 14 Aug 2019 Read

Ash147 wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:Well if they haven't won anything then why should they get a spot?

Successful Guys.


It's rare for a top 16 player to have not won a tournament. There are only two at the moment who haven't, and both of those are far superior to Reanne Evans.


Let's say they don't win any tournaments in time to qualify for the CoC.

The times the CoC has had people there based on rank who hadn't won anything, people were moaning about it. Saying it wasn't really the Champion Of Champions if some participants were not actual champions.

Because of that moaning, they now try to make sure everybody who has entered is a champion of some description. And still people whine that they only want champions of prestigious events. Every years somebody's saying the six-reds champion shouldn't be there, or the Shoot-Out champion shouldn't be there. Or that they shouldn't include PTC-style tournaments because they're not major enough. It's just a fun invitational at the end of the day. Who cares?

I see nothing wrong with considering the Woman's Champion as a back up if there aren't enough different champions to go around. It's not like she's being guaranteed a place, is it?

Re: World Snooker International Championship Final !!

Postby Iranu » 14 Aug 2019 Read

Ash147 wrote:Wouldn't it be a better inspiration for young women to see a woman who has got her way onto the main tour through hard work?

Yeah it would. But that’s far more likely to happen if the women’s game gets larger and more competitive, which needs girls to be inspired to play, which requires exposure, which this would bring about.

[quote=“Ash147”]
All this tells young women is that they need hand-outs to compete with the men.

[/quote]

Hardly. Most people watching probably wouldn’t know the intricacies of the selection process, especially young girls who aren’t going to be bothered about the bureaucracy of the game.

What concerns me is I don’t think you’d be saying this if it were a men’s Amateur World Champion on the reserve list or something, even if they were no better than Evans. If you say I’m wrong I’ll believe you.

Re: World Snooker International Championship Final !!

Postby Ash147 » 14 Aug 2019 Read

SnookerFan wrote:
Ash147 wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:Well if they haven't won anything then why should they get a spot?

Successful Guys.


It's rare for a top 16 player to have not won a tournament. There are only two at the moment who haven't, and both of those are far superior to Reanne Evans.


Let's say they don't win any tournaments in time to qualify for the CoC.

The times the CoC has had people there based on rank who hadn't won anything, people were moaning about it. Saying it wasn't really the Champion Of Champions if some participants were not actual champions.

Because of that moaning, they now try to make sure everybody who has entered is a champion of some description. And still people whine that they only want champions of prestigious events. Every years somebody's saying the six-reds champion shouldn't be there, or the Shoot-Out champion shouldn't be there. Or that they shouldn't include PTC-style tournaments because they're not major enough. It's just a fun invitational at the end of the day. Who cares?

I see nothing wrong with considering the Woman's Champion as a back up if there aren't enough different champions to go around. It's not like she's being guaranteed a place, is it?


I've never had a problem with the way the CoC worked. I always thought that having all of the past years winners, plus taking the highest ranked players to fill any gaps made sense. That way you're pretty much guaranteed a high standard of play. Reannae Evans is not up to that standard.

Re: World Snooker International Championship Final !!

Postby Ash147 » 14 Aug 2019 Read

Iranu wrote:
Ash147 wrote:Wouldn't it be a better inspiration for young women to see a woman who has got her way onto the main tour through hard work?

Yeah it would. But that’s far more likely to happen if the women’s game gets larger and more competitive, which needs girls to be inspired to play, which requires exposure, which this would bring about.

[quote=“Ash147”]
All this tells young women is that they need hand-outs to compete with the men.



Hardly. Most people watching probably wouldn’t know the intricacies of the selection process, especially young girls who aren’t going to be bothered about the bureaucracy of the game.

What concerns me is I don’t think you’d be saying this if it were a men’s Amateur World Champion on the reserve list or something, even if they were no better than Evans. If you say I’m wrong I’ll believe you.[/quote]

No, I don't want a men's Amateur World Champion in the CoC either. It should be ranking event winners, and any top ups to be taken from the highest ranked player(s).

Re: World Snooker International Championship Final !!

Postby Iranu » 14 Aug 2019 Read

Sorry Ash, I’ve screwed it up rofl dunno why it isn’t working.

Ok that’s fine then <ok> personally I just don’t think ranking should be a decider in a tournament called Champion of Champions.

Re: World Snooker International Championship Final !!

Postby Ash147 » 14 Aug 2019 Read

Iranu wrote:Sorry Ash, I’ve screwed it up rofl dunno why it isn’t working.

Ok that’s fine then <ok> personally I just don’t think ranking should be a decider in a tournament called Champion of Champions.


Trust you to break it. :pal:

Each to their own, I suppose. <ok>

Re: World Snooker International Championship Final !!

Postby SnookerFan » 14 Aug 2019 Read

Ash147 wrote:No, I don't want a men's Amateur World Champion in the CoC either. It should be ranking event winners, and any top ups to be taken from the highest ranked player(s).


That is how it worked in the past. People weren't happy with it that way, and now it's changed.

And just for the record, I found people complaining about having high-ranked top-ups for the tournament just as silly as people complaining about any other entry criteria.

Re: World Snooker International Championship Final !!

Postby Ash147 » 14 Aug 2019 Read

SnookerFan wrote:
Ash147 wrote:No, I don't want a men's Amateur World Champion in the CoC either. It should be ranking event winners, and any top ups to be taken from the highest ranked player(s).


That is how it worked in the past. People weren't happy with it that way, and now it's changed.

And just for the record, I found people complaining about having high-ranked top-ups for the tournament just as silly as people complaining about any other entry criteria.


I think it just seems to make sense to have that setup, personally. The high ranking top-ups will most likely include former ranking event winners too. I'd still rather see the likes of Gilbert and Lisowski, who are both top quality players.

Re: World Snooker International Championship Final !!

Postby HappyCamper » 14 Aug 2019 Read

Having a tournament just for actual winners makes sense, even if those are winners of lesser tournaments, and gives the event a unique character.

There is already the Masters, Shanghai Masters, and World Championships that reward a top 16 place from consistency. Do we really need a lesser version of the masters but with Matt Selt intead of Ali Carter?

Re: World Snooker International Championship Final !!

Postby SnookerFan » 14 Aug 2019 Read

HappyCamper wrote:Having a tournament just for actual winners makes sense, even if those are winners of lesser tournaments, and gives the event a unique character.

There is already the Masters, Shanghai Masters, and World Championships that reward a top 16 place from consistency. Do we really need a lesser version of the masters but with Matt Selt intead of Ali Carter?


Yeah, actually I'd agree with this.

The CoC feels like a different type of tournament to the ones you mentioned.

Pretty much all ITV tournaments are top players only. Then you have The Masters. And the Shanghai Masters is invitational now. Isn't the Paul Hunter Classic similar now?

The CoC is an attempt at something different. We're hardly missing out on top-players only tournaments, are we?

Just feels silly how serious people take the criteria process of this one tournament. Always seems to be somebody moaning about something, every year.
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