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Re: Dafabet Masters Final: Ali Carter v Stuart Bingham

Postby Holden Chinaski

In all seriousness, you need both. Talent and hard work.

I think Ronnie has more natural talent than most other players, but he has also worked harder and has been more obsessed than other players.

There are a lot of child prodigies who never make it. There are a lot of less talented people who make it because they work hard. Ronnie is a combination of both I think.

Re: Dafabet Masters Final: Ali Carter v Stuart Bingham

Postby donthittheblue

rekoons wrote:
donthittheblue wrote:
rekoons wrote:
donthittheblue wrote:Child prodigies do not exist. They are made.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... -prodigies


Did you read the article?

it doesn't say they don't exist, only that innate skill alone does not guarantee succes:

"Although outstanding early ability tends to be presented in the media as a genetic freak, this is probably almost never the case, except perhaps in a handful of isolated skills"

"Yet childhood prodigy is far from necessarily the precursor of adult genius; in the vast majority of cases it is not."

" While politicians bang on about "ability" and "talent" as if it is "God-given" (as Tony Blair once put it), these come out of relationships with parents and a consequent desire to succeed, much more so than genes."


Yes,. I did. The bit you quoted backs up my point.

But the point is that so called child prodigies are not innately talented, they're products of parents successful in the field who often dragon-mum they're children and make them work harder.

Essentially anyone dragon-mother into snooker could be better than o'sullivan.


No it doesn't, you're point is child prodigies or innate talent do not exist.
The quoted points talk about those 2 things rofl


No. It doesn't. It talks about how child prodigies in actuality don't exist; they are products of hard ringing by parents to guide them to the sport and force them to work hard.....

There's no innate talent. If I won big on the lottery tomorrow, give me ten years I could be at the top echelons of snooker through sheer hard work even though I can barely scrap together a 40 break at the minute.....

Ronnie didn't get wear he was because he had 'god-given talent' he got where he is because he married a bucking snooker table, like every other player on the tour; some of them just spent more time in bed with it like Ronnie and Hendry....

Re: Dafabet Masters Final: Ali Carter v Stuart Bingham

Postby SnookerFan

donthittheblue wrote:
No. It doesn't. It talks about how child prodigies in actuality don't exist; they are products of hard ringing by parents to guide them to the sport and force them to work hard.....

There's no innate talent. If I won big on the lottery tomorrow, give me ten years I could be at the top echelons of snooker through sheer hard work even though I can barely scrap together a 40 break at the minute.....

Ronnie didn't get wear he was because he had 'god-given talent' he got where he is because he married a bucking snooker table, like every other player on the tour; some of them just spent more time in bed with it like Ronnie and Hendry....


BUNGKE!

Re: Dafabet Masters Final: Ali Carter v Stuart Bingham

Postby donthittheblue

SnookerFan wrote:
donthittheblue wrote:
rekoons wrote:I want to marry a snooker table


So would most people on this forum

Difference is our parents weren't porn barons so we had to go to school and get jobs....


How do you know?


Well if yours were you've wasted your childhood by not becoming a pro snooker player...

Re: Dafabet Masters Final: Ali Carter v Stuart Bingham

Postby Wildey

SnookerFan wrote:
Wildey wrote:Kyren Wilson has never been sawyed either he was single minded from a young age First to the Club last to leave it takes a lot of hard work for every player to get to the top Ronnie included however Kyren is nowhere near as talented as Ronnie dont have a clue what donthittheblue is talking about


It's just too simplistic a view to say hard work equals success and nothing else matters.

Saying somebody has a natural talent doesn't mean they could pick up a cue for the first time and immediately win The Crucible. Obviously a combination of hard work and talent is required.

Take Stephen Hendry it took him 6 years from getting a 6ft table for Christmas Present at 12 years of age to Winning his 1st ranking title at 18 it took Stuart Bingham 16 years as a Pro to win his 1st.


There are definitely a difference in degree of natrual talent from player to player.

Re: Dafabet Masters Final: Ali Carter v Stuart Bingham

Postby donthittheblue

SnookerFan wrote:
Wildey wrote:Take Stephen Hendry it took him 6 years from getting a 6ft table for Christmas Present at 12 years of age to Winning his 1st ranking title at 18


If his dad was a millionaire, he'd have won one in 3.


Obviously he wouldn't have had to start on a 6fter

Re: Dafabet Masters Final: Ali Carter v Stuart Bingham

Postby donthittheblue

Wildey wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:
Wildey wrote:Kyren Wilson has never been sawyed either he was single minded from a young age First to the Club last to leave it takes a lot of hard work for every player to get to the top Ronnie included however Kyren is nowhere near as talented as Ronnie dont have a clue what donthittheblue is talking about


It's just too simplistic a view to say hard work equals success and nothing else matters.

Saying somebody has a natural talent doesn't mean they could pick up a cue for the first time and immediately win The Crucible. Obviously a combination of hard work and talent is required.

Take Stephen Hendry it took him 6 years from getting a 6ft table for Christmas Present at 12 years of age to Winning his 1st ranking title at 18 it took Stuart Bingham 16 years as a Pro to win his 1st.


There are definitely a difference in degree of natrual talent from player to player.


Yes, but Hendry actually practised rather than spending all his time in the pub.

Re: Dafabet Masters Final: Ali Carter v Stuart Bingham

Postby Iranu

donthittheblue wrote:
No. It doesn't. It talks about how child prodigies in actuality don't exist; they are products of hard ringing by parents to guide them to the sport and force them to work hard.....

There's no innate talent. If I won big on the lottery tomorrow, give me ten years I could be at the top echelons of snooker through sheer hard work even though I can barely scrap together a 40 break at the minute.....

Ronnie didn't get wear he was because he had 'god-given talent' he got where he is because he married a bucking snooker table, like every other player on the tour; some of them just spent more time in bed with it like Ronnie and Hendry....

For every child who does become a child prodigy, there are many more who have just the same support/pushing (depending on your perspective) who DON’T make it because they don’t have that innate talent. The music industry is notorious for this. Yes of course you need to work hard but that’s not everything.

Do you seriously think the other 120+ players on tour just haven’t worked as hard as Ronnie and the other top players?

Re: Dafabet Masters Final: Ali Carter v Stuart Bingham

Postby Iranu

SnookerFan wrote:I know this is fashionable now, and I'll probably get in trouble for suggesting it.

But am I the only one who is reminded of a previous poster when I read donthittheblue's posts?

Ash would never risk implying that Judd wasn’t innately better than Selby.

Re: Dafabet Masters Final: Ali Carter v Stuart Bingham

Postby donthittheblue

Iranu wrote:
donthittheblue wrote:
No. It doesn't. It talks about how child prodigies in actuality don't exist; they are products of hard ringing by parents to guide them to the sport and force them to work hard.....

There's no innate talent. If I won big on the lottery tomorrow, give me ten years I could be at the top echelons of snooker through sheer hard work even though I can barely scrap together a 40 break at the minute.....

Ronnie didn't get wear he was because he had 'god-given talent' he got where he is because he married a bucking snooker table, like every other player on the tour; some of them just spent more time in bed with it like Ronnie and Hendry....

For every child who does become a child prodigy, there are many more who have just the same support/pushing (depending on your perspective) who DON’T make it because they don’t have that innate talent. The music industry is notorious for this. Yes of course you need to work hard but that’s not everything.

Do you seriously think the other 120+ players on tour just haven’t worked as hard as Ronnie and the other top players?


Yes, I do.

As I said upthread if I had unlimited money, no need to work, and practised 16 hours a day, I could win a world championship. Unfortunately for 99% of people that ain't practical.

Re: Dafabet Masters Final: Ali Carter v Stuart Bingham

Postby SnookerFan

donthittheblue wrote:Yes, I do.

As I said upthread if I had unlimited money, no need to work, and practised 16 hours a day, I could win a world championship. Unfortunately for 99% of people that ain't practical.


Okay. Nobody is saying you couldn't.

What you're saying is that natural talent doesn't exist. Which is clearly untrue.

Re: Dafabet Masters Final: Ali Carter v Stuart Bingham

Postby D4P

SnookerFan wrote:I know this is fashionable now, and I'll probably get in trouble for suggesting it.

But am I the only one who is reminded of a previous poster when I read donthittheblue's posts?


I was going to point out earlier that "success in life is entirely a function of hard work" sounds very "libertarian" to me...

Re: Dafabet Masters Final: Ali Carter v Stuart Bingham

Postby donthittheblue

rekoons wrote:Just buy yourself a table then, quit your job, practise for ten years, then you’ll Be millionaire :)


Trust me if I could do that, I would....

Oh yeah, and how exactly am I meant to support myself for ten years with no income???

Re: Dafabet Masters Final: Ali Carter v Stuart Bingham

Postby donthittheblue

SnookerFan wrote:
donthittheblue wrote:Yes, I do.

As I said upthread if I had unlimited money, no need to work, and practised 16 hours a day, I could win a world championship. Unfortunately for 99% of people that ain't practical.


Okay. Nobody is saying you couldn't.

What you're saying is that natural talent doesn't exist. Which is clearly untrue.


It doesn't exist and even if it did the scale of it would be utterly unimportant when your talking the top 120 players in the world. Ronnie, Hendry, Davis they got where they are by hard work and hard work alone.

Re: Dafabet Masters Final: Ali Carter v Stuart Bingham

Postby Wildey

donthittheblue wrote:
Wildey wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:
Wildey wrote:Kyren Wilson has never been sawyed either he was single minded from a young age First to the Club last to leave it takes a lot of hard work for every player to get to the top Ronnie included however Kyren is nowhere near as talented as Ronnie dont have a clue what donthittheblue is talking about


It's just too simplistic a view to say hard work equals success and nothing else matters.

Saying somebody has a natural talent doesn't mean they could pick up a cue for the first time and immediately win The Crucible. Obviously a combination of hard work and talent is required.

Take Stephen Hendry it took him 6 years from getting a 6ft table for Christmas Present at 12 years of age to Winning his 1st ranking title at 18 it took Stuart Bingham 16 years as a Pro to win his 1st.


There are definitely a difference in degree of natrual talent from player to player.


Yes, but Hendry actually practised rather than spending all his time in the pub.

So did Bingham.


   

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