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Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Pink Ball

HappyCamper wrote:
eraserhead wrote:Variety is the spice of life. Longer matches doesn't equal better.


but all else being equal they are more likely to be won by the better player.

And yet for nine days every year, the whole snooker community suddenly pretends that it doesn't believe that.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Pink Ball

Iranu wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:I agree, he's well above average, and even if it had a proper format, he would have qualified prior to this. No qualms there.

But look at the list of 'pretty good' players who've played at the Masters. It's as long as a wet week. They're not elite.

Actually, relatively speaking they very much are.

Yeah, relatively speaking. Relative to me, they're elite. So let's pretend they're elite.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby eraserhead

HappyCamper wrote:
eraserhead wrote:Variety is the spice of life. Longer matches doesn't equal better.


but all else being equal they are more likely to be won by the better player.

Longer matches have always been more about crisis management rather than better play imo. Best of 11's for a tournament the length of the masters is fine.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Andre147

eraserhead wrote:
HappyCamper wrote:
eraserhead wrote:Variety is the spice of life. Longer matches doesn't equal better.


but all else being equal they are more likely to be won by the better player.

Longer matches have always been more about crisis management rather than better play imo. Best of 11's for a tournament the length of the masters is fine.


With 16 players involved, they really couldn't make it much longer than Best of 11. I like it for what it is. This event has always brought us some of the best matches ever played.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby eraserhead

Pink Ball wrote:But look at the list of 'pretty good' players who've played at the Masters. It's as long as a wet week. They're not elite.

Is there that much of a difference between who's played at the worlds and who's played at the masters? You know a lot more about snooker history than me so genuine question.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Iranu

Pink Ball wrote:
Iranu wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:I agree, he's well above average, and even if it had a proper format, he would have qualified prior to this. No qualms there.

But look at the list of 'pretty good' players who've played at the Masters. It's as long as a wet week. They're not elite.

Actually, relatively speaking they very much are.

Yeah, relatively speaking. Relative to me, they're elite. So let's pretend they're elite.

And, y’know, relative to the rest of the tour at that time.

Give or take a stupid cut-off date.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby eraserhead

Andre147 wrote:With 16 players involved, they really couldn't make it much longer than Best of 11. I like it for what it is. This event has always brought us some of the best matches ever played.

Most people agree it's a good format.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Andre147

eraserhead wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:But look at the list of 'pretty good' players who've played at the Masters. It's as long as a wet week. They're not elite.

Is there that much of a difference between who's played at the worlds and who's played at the masters? You know a lot more about snooker history than me so genuine question.


Worse players have played at the worlds. Hendry used to beat some of them in the early rounds early 90s.

Pinks just hates this tournament, we know it.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Iranu

Andre147 wrote:
eraserhead wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:But look at the list of 'pretty good' players who've played at the Masters. It's as long as a wet week. They're not elite.

Is there that much of a difference between who's played at the worlds and who's played at the masters? You know a lot more about snooker history than me so genuine question.


Worse players have played at the worlds. Hendry used to beat some of them in the early rounds early 90s.

Pinks just hates this tournament, we know it.

Let’s be fair, he doesn’t hate it he thinks it’s overrated.

He’s wrong but he’s not “hate it” wrong.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Ck147

Pink Ball wrote:
Iranu wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:I agree, he's well above average, and even if it had a proper format, he would have qualified prior to this. No qualms there.

But look at the list of 'pretty good' players who've played at the Masters. It's as long as a wet week. They're not elite.

Actually, relatively speaking they very much are.

Yeah, relatively speaking. Relative to me, they're elite. So let's pretend they're elite.

Shouldn’t you be elsewhere letting your bed pee on you?

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Pink Ball

eraserhead wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:But look at the list of 'pretty good' players who've played at the Masters. It's as long as a wet week. They're not elite.

Is there that much of a difference between who's played at the worlds and who's played at the masters? You know a lot more about snooker history than me so genuine question.

Am I going around in circles here? Where does it say the World Championship is only open to the game’s elite?

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Pink Ball

Andre147 wrote:
eraserhead wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:But look at the list of 'pretty good' players who've played at the Masters. It's as long as a wet week. They're not elite.

Is there that much of a difference between who's played at the worlds and who's played at the masters? You know a lot more about snooker history than me so genuine question.


Worse players have played at the worlds. Hendry used to beat some of them in the early rounds early 90s.

Pinks just hates this tournament, we know it.

You can’t know it because it isn’t true. The only professional tournament I hate is the Shoot Out. I think The Masters is a good tournament. I just don’t think it’s nearly as good as it’s made out to be.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby eraserhead

Pink Ball wrote:
eraserhead wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:But look at the list of 'pretty good' players who've played at the Masters. It's as long as a wet week. They're not elite.

Is there that much of a difference between who's played at the worlds and who's played at the masters? You know a lot more about snooker history than me so genuine question.

Am I going around in circles here? Where does it say the World Championship is only open to the game’s elite?

It's not but but the games elite only have to play one extra match. :shrug:

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Pink Ball

Andre147 wrote:
eraserhead wrote:
HappyCamper wrote:
eraserhead wrote:Variety is the spice of life. Longer matches doesn't equal better.


but all else being equal they are more likely to be won by the better player.

Longer matches have always been more about crisis management rather than better play imo. Best of 11's for a tournament the length of the masters is fine.


With 16 players involved, they really couldn't make it much longer than Best of 11

Exactly. So cut it down to eight players, and make the matches longer.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Pink Ball

eraserhead wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
eraserhead wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:But look at the list of 'pretty good' players who've played at the Masters. It's as long as a wet week. They're not elite.

Is there that much of a difference between who's played at the worlds and who's played at the masters? You know a lot more about snooker history than me so genuine question.

Am I going around in circles here? Where does it say the World Championship is only open to the game’s elite?

It's not but but the games elite only have to play one extra match. :shrug:

bucking BINGO. You’ve inadvertently hit the nail on the head. It’s far too like an open tournament, as regards who plays in it, to be considered elite.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Andre147

Pink Ball wrote:
Andre147 wrote:
eraserhead wrote:
HappyCamper wrote:
eraserhead wrote:Variety is the spice of life. Longer matches doesn't equal better.


but all else being equal they are more likely to be won by the better player.

Longer matches have always been more about crisis management rather than better play imo. Best of 11's for a tournament the length of the masters is fine.


With 16 players involved, they really couldn't make it much longer than Best of 11

Exactly. So cut it down to eight players, and make the matches longer.


But you already have that? Tour Champs?

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Pink Ball

Andre147 wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
Andre147 wrote:
eraserhead wrote:
HappyCamper wrote:
but all else being equal they are more likely to be won by the better player.

Longer matches have always been more about crisis management rather than better play imo. Best of 11's for a tournament the length of the masters is fine.


With 16 players involved, they really couldn't make it much longer than Best of 11

Exactly. So cut it down to eight players, and make the matches longer.


But you already have that? Tour Champs?

Which is a far superior competition, and ticks far more of the boxes that the Masters claims to tick. If it changed to top eight on the two-year list and reduced to one table, it’s essentially what I always wanted the Masters to be.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Ck147

Pink Ball wrote:
Andre147 wrote:
eraserhead wrote:
HappyCamper wrote:
eraserhead wrote:Variety is the spice of life. Longer matches doesn't equal better.


but all else being equal they are more likely to be won by the better player.

Longer matches have always been more about crisis management rather than better play imo. Best of 11's for a tournament the length of the masters is fine.


With 16 players involved, they really couldn't make it much longer than Best of 11

Exactly. So cut it down to eight players, and make the matches longer.

We already have that with the TC, the Masters is fine as it is, leave it alone.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby FoulNMiss

Pink Ball wrote:
eraserhead wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:But look at the list of 'pretty good' players who've played at the Masters. It's as long as a wet week. They're not elite.

Is there that much of a difference between who's played at the worlds and who's played at the masters? You know a lot more about snooker history than me so genuine question.

Am I going around in circles here? Where does it say the World Championship is only open to the game’s elite?


I'd say the Masters is open to both the best of the best and the worst of the best. Which is still fine to me.
Last edited by FoulNMiss on 16 Jan 2022, edited 2 times in total.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Pink Ball

FoulNMiss wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
eraserhead wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:But look at the list of 'pretty good' players who've played at the Masters. It's as long as a wet week. They're not elite.

Is there that much of a difference between who's played at the worlds and who's played at the masters? You know a lot more about snooker history than me so genuine question.

Am I going around in circles here? Where does it say the World Championship is only open to the game’s elite?


I'd say the Masters is open to both the best of the best and the worst of the best. Which is still fine to me.

And I respect the fact that you don’t pretend Jack Lisowski is Steve Davis

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby FoulNMiss

Pink Ball wrote:
FoulNMiss wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
eraserhead wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:But look at the list of 'pretty good' players who've played at the Masters. It's as long as a wet week. They're not elite.

Is there that much of a difference between who's played at the worlds and who's played at the masters? You know a lot more about snooker history than me so genuine question.

Am I going around in circles here? Where does it say the World Championship is only open to the game’s elite?


I'd say the Masters is open to both the best of the best and the worst of the best. Which is still fine to me.

And I respect the fact that you don’t pretend Jack Lisowski is Steve Davis


Course I don't.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Iranu

Pink Ball wrote:Am I going around in circles here? Where does it say the World Championship is only open to the game’s elite?

It is, however, touted as the game’s ultimate test.

You’d never face Gary bucking Wilson in the semifinals of the Masters.

Re: Cazoo Masters Semi-Finals: Judd Trump v Barry Hawkins

Postby Georgi1914

I am quite drunk right now and don't feel like reading all of pink ball's posts on this thread. From what I read though I can conclude that this is another one of his attempts to express unconventional opinions such as the one that Higgins is a bigger player than Davis and so on.. I think you are a smart man, pink ball, but you are trying too hard at times to express your opinions as some universal truths. And most of the times they are simply not! Give it a rest on some topics, snooker is quite enjoyable as it is, with its current traditions and history!
Last edited by Georgi1914 on 16 Jan 2022, edited 2 times in total.