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Re: Betfred World Championship (Sat April 30th) Semi-Finals!

Postby SnookerArcher

Iranu wrote:Yeah sorry, whiffed the maths on Selby’s age there! Although I don’t really think it affects my point.


Great avatar you got! Yes your point stands, could be a late(r) surge of TCs to come, especially with the younger players overall not being good, if/when the standard of the veterans dips (All the triple crown club are if not 40 and over virtually 40 other than Judd, Murphy will be 40 come August)... So unless the sport does get dominated by China with the new generation it could be Trump's for the taking, although he's not been a big feature in TCs since he completed the triple crown but again he's still young and hasn't got a family to distract him.

TheRocket wrote:The 2014 final was a tough one to take but I'm glad it didnt stop ROS from getting to 7 World titles eventually. The 2020 semis was a legendary moment and the start of Rons revival at the Crucible. I can only repeat myself, if Ronnie had lost that match he would have been finished for good at the World Championship. It would have killed him. We will always look back at that match.

And while 2020 was a battle all way through it gave him the confidence to go on and do what he did in 2022. He was completely different league in 2022. Pretty much as good as any previous version.


Yeah it derailed him much more than any of us had guessed I bet, 5yrs of not making a semi final and 2015 was clearly a hangover of 2014, Ronnie fluffed his threepeat and was impatient to correct that, underestimating Bingham who was a journeyman in the eyes of perhaps many at that point & then losing to another opponent he hadn't lost to in many years in 2016, the Hawk... 2018 Ali Carter who he had never lost to in any pro match... 2019 losing to an amateur... I can forgive some wondering if he could make it to 7.

But Ronnie did become a serial winner in just about everything else! Yeah 2020 was a very fortunate one for Ronnie and us fans, no crowds for most of it so he could relax and have less distractions from the job at hand, he demolished Thepchaiyah in record time (I swear Ronnie secretly does listen to and care about records lol, Thepchaiyah frequently is called the fastest player and what did Ronnie do to him? HEHE)
Tough matches vs Ding and Willo (I feared for him with willing taking session 1 6-2, also iirc Ding had the better of Ronnie in session 2 so was like oh god not 2017 again where Ronnie lost it due to a bad evening session)... Selby, good start but Ronnie was angry it wasn't a 6-2 session where it should have been, every frame won vs Selby is major in if anything keeping the match shorter! Sessions 2-3 were painful to watch with Selby doing what he does, grinding players down & the final session started good but when Ronnie smashed the ball around in frame 30 I did fear the worst & it would have been such a blow had he lost but he made that SUBLIME comeback no one saw coming, least of all Selby!

Had Selby won likelihood he'd have beaten Kyren in the final and he really would be the threat to Hendry's record over Ronnie! (When last year Davis said that I felt so disrespected & I wonder if Ronnie did hehe as he just went and won his 7th AND did so very comfortably looking at score margins)

Yes 2020 was the revival we waited for, sure his defence last year wasn't good, bowing out in round 2 though at least he got to a decider from 10-6 down (He really didn't take his reigning champion season seriously e.g. not practising outside of tournaments, doing it in matches potting every last ball in lost frames hehe), I didn't think he'd win his 7th so soon though! I figured he'd need a couple of years to have the thirst again but something was different this time, he really applied himself, he'd win every tournament if he always was as focused as this! (Just as in Shanghai 2019 he was very professional throughout, enjoyed the stuff outside of matches as well and he went on to win it, 1st threepeat of any tournament in a while and had they not removed it as a ranking tournament he'd have been no.1 longer!)...

Proves for Ronnie it's more often his mood that affects his result, had he won 2014 who knows how many more he'd have won till now, he was on a roll and his own words he doesn't like to graft, he likes things to come easy to him, he had been in the zone for the crucible with Steve Peters help, 2012 he says was easily his best crucible tournament where he won comfortably every match almost, 2013 he had a year off and won convincingly, no one ever led him in any session, only time he fell behind in frames was the final vs Barry.
2014 he had that 10-5 margin that was squandered. Then the real suffering would come in session 3, which was so slow they only played 6frames (Typical Selby match).... So began his great exodus from the 1 table, Ronnie was winning a lot still, after losing his world title that he came close to holding 3yrs straight he won the Champ of champs, UK so he was a favourite surely for 2015 but he fell flat vs Bingham of all people... 2016 he was the Masters champion and the favourite going in to the crucible, to lose to Barry who he trounced 10-1 just months earlier in the Masters. 2018 & 19 he was favourite again being the most dominant player of both seasons esp 2018 with 5 ranking titles, 2019 he went in as world no.1.... Pressure often gets bad results for him in the Crucible doesn't it!

2020 and 2022 he was not the favourite. (Nor were they successful seasons, 2011-2012 I'm not sure but I don't think it was, he tends to win the world title in more lean seasons, none more so than 2013 hehe) But I can look at the silver lining it took so long for his 6th title, made me appreciate his runs more in the crucible, they're far from formalities even for him & I didn't get restless for title 7 with how long 6 took!
Beauty of not winning 2014 but winning 2020 & 22? PRIZE MONEY! Sure he lost out on I think £175k as runner up in 2014 but £500k is much nicer than 300 and he has won over £1million this decade from the crucible!

Yes if I had to watch 3 frames it would be frames 31-33 of 2020's SF vs Selby! Also again shows Ronnie's mood is huge in how he does, he came in 13-11 down but was laughing about something! GENIUS! :happy:

Re: Betfred World Championship (Sat April 30th) Semi-Finals!

Postby SnookerArcher

mantorok wrote:
Andre147 wrote:I've seen Higgins slam his cue on the floor like that, but only another time before this one... 2004 World Champs, he was playing Dott. Long time ago lol


My little tribute to this very moment where the match was truly over.



https://youtu.be/rGgJrctV_e0


:D I can imagine (And will look for them) not too few youtubers will say that action is John pretending to act frustrated when he's throwing frames away for dirty money. Can't imagine he'd not want to go out of his way to win his 5th title though, he's had 3 finals in a row to & 2019 where he narrowly beat Gilbert (I was so disappointed, like with Willo jut weeks ago) he was in tears making it through. But yeah not a nice stat, Higgins has lost 4 finals, 2 shy of Jimmy White!

Dan-cat wrote:Good lord Snookerarcher you are long, and late to the debate. <laugh>

I’ve never understood hatred of Ronnie either. Seems perverse. And they always recall his odd missteps - bad behaviour at press conferences or walking out of that Hendry match whilst deep in a bipolar depression dip. As if somehow being human is not allowed for Ronnie. I’d rather that than the ultimate crime: being dull.

I recently had a pool table recovered here in Spain and in the run up to it me and the pool table guy had built a great relationship chatting about snooker and swapping long WhatsApp audios. Then when we finally met on the day of the recovering he turned out to be a Ronnie h*ter. It was just after he’d beat Robbo in the Grand Prix with that amazing frame needing two snookers, and that spell in the final session where he took us to that realm that no other player can do. Never quite been the same since between us since then, and I was gonna get him to do my snooker table.


Ergh! What a pity, some yrs back on Guild Wars 2 was speaking to an english guy of greek origin who plays snooker, anyhow I asked who is the best snooker player and he replied... Mark Selby? !!!!! Not the answer I wanted lol, the right answer begins with an R!

But ok people shouldn't be forced to have Ronnie as their favourite but to hate him? Sure he can act up, rub people the wrong way but his talent and success (Which wasn't assured once upon a time & he does go through cold spells even now) no one can deny he's not great & yes he's far from boring! I've watched a lot of his off table stuff he's very interesting and insightful, it's more often the BBC and WST interviews where he may act up though I tend to find them funny as hell!!! None more so than the losing arm and leg post match interview after beating Ding in 2020! So glad he went on to be champion cos had he not that interview would bite his bottom forever! I am some twats don't need much for ammo against him and that would be a mountain of ammo! There's a New Yorker I sing Ronnie's praises to but overall the guy has a negative take on him, probably most of all because I linked that interview :-D , he can't seem to get over that with him being a disrespectful man but I mentioned him buying food for a tramp in Scotland in 2018 after losing a match vs Higgins & how he helps upcoming players like the chinese.

Anyhow I like his personality and funny interviews, far more than the usual trite pre/post match interviews that may as well be prerecorded or mimed. I would prefer if he was a bit more self glorifying haha Ronnie does take humility too far!

Oh yeah Ronnie's comeback vs Robbo, can never count him out & I don't know how important that win was to this world title but it was still good to happen, having not won anything since 2020's world title, lots of finals though... Ronnie more often than not does tend to play much better in the evening.

Yes I am late hehe, took a week to digest Ronnie finally equalling Hendry's record, I'm probably a much more recent Ronnie fan than most here, took note of his 2012 win but I didn't watch it or much, 2013 was the first time I definitely did watch his world final so I've followed him less than 10/30yrs of his pro career but still big relief & joy! Just soaking up the good times! I'd love for Ronnie to keep winning but as I said on his facebook fanpage everything's a bonus now, he's done plenty as it is for snooker's legacy.

Reg Varney wrote:
SnookerArcher wrote:
Scooper wrote:Finish this off Ronnie - had enough of honest John


Honest John lol, certainly not what a lot of fans call him on youtube, the exact opposite!


The "Honest John" is an ironic nickname, well it is whenever I used it.


HAHA

McManusFan wrote:Hating any snooker player seems a little weird. I can get not supporting Ronnie though - he's clearly the best, so it's always going to be higher stakes for whoever beats him on the day.

Also, he plays a little too fast for me! He plays beautiful shots and creative ones too, but I'd appreciate a couple of seconds to appreciate them!


Ronnie's an anomaly, in player terms yes he's the master, as Angles put it in the 2020 final (I disagreed slightly) he said Ronnie's not the best at any 1 component of the game but he's strong in all of them, top 3 (He is best at cueball control, breakbuilding & frontrunning (If that is counted as a snooker skill) (Ok many say Ding is better at cueball ctrl and Trump is a contender at breakbuilding, his century rate I last checked is marginally higher). But in his fragile character with depression & anxiety he feels an underdog! That's what makes him so special and endearing to the fans, he isn't a robot and serial winner the way Davis & Hendry were but he does show emotion & talk openly about his struggles.

As I recently came up with on facebook to a huge Ronnie fan he's Rocky Balboa (People's champion) and Apollo Creed (The best) combined!

Hossein Vafaei was right saying Ronnie's bad for snooker, he makes the other players look bad and slow :win: I get it, when I watch Ronnie playing well I take for granted how hard the game is so when he's not playing well or when I see other players play it seems dull lol, definitely for me and I bet many Ronnie fans at least when they watch other players it's not as engaging, too spoiled from watching the Rocket in good form!

Although saying that my favourite crucible final I've watched isn't any of Ronnie's, it would be 2018 as Ronnie finals are never close affairs, Willo ran away for much of 2018 but Higgin's comeback made it tense. (I have to watch 1985's final!)... Randomly picking a good Ronnie final would be 2018 Champion of Champions vs Kyren Wilson, what a comeback from the Warrior & Ronnie's crazy double that fluked a snooker! But yes Ronnie tends to not let the finals get close when he goes on to win.

Re: Betfred World Championship (Sat April 30th) Semi-Finals!

Postby SnookerArcher

McManusFan wrote:Hating any snooker player seems a little weird.


Yes it's not healthy, it's understandable why many hate Selby and Ebdon though, slow play is often not popular in any game. Especially if it's deliberately to mess with their opponent. I compare it to clinchers in boxing, it's dull and while it's legal it's bad sport. But it's got Selby 4 world titles & he can't be accused of not playing to his strength & hearing he has depression issues, I shouldn't begrudge his success. He is rather unusual though he'd fit well in Davis' era and before where big breaks wasn't as much the order of the day but tactics. Hendry rewrote it into the modern game it is of attacking snooker and faster paced with Ronnie's eminence (Plus ambidextrous play has caught on with younger players), Selby is a dying breed, other than Yan Bingtao who seems just as happy in long, drawn out battles. I was over the moon he took that 85m new longest frame in history! I can't imagine how demoralising losing 1hr + frames are, losing respotted blacks must be a kick in the nuts too regardless how long the frame was.

I'll admit I can get a wee bit 'aggressive' watching snooker (Hypocritical as I bemoan how loutish football fans are, why I shouldn't follow many sports as I get too invested when I do), cursing at the player I'm rooting against wanting them to miss & delighting in it when they do. Or kicking at the tv at the player I'm rooting against hehe (Selby and Higgins more than the others), hehe I know if I ever watch live snooker I'd have to be more civilised.

Re: Betfred World Championship (Sat April 30th) Semi-Finals!

Postby SnookerArcher

Holden Chinaski wrote:
Vallomas wrote:It seems that Ronnie fans are more afraid of Judd than the man himself.

Who’s afraid? I think Ronnie has a great chance against Judd.


Going by recent match ups I admit I was a little afraid (I didn't watch Ronnie's most recent where he beat Trump prior to the crucible final but Trump has had Ronnie's number since 2019 otherwise), even with a 12-5 lead after day 1 I was cautiously optimistic as I know Judd is one of the greatest comeback players, not so much frontrunning lol he's blown many leads. Session 3 oh dear... I was able to have a 2hr nap or I tried & it was an uneasy one, I wanted time to speed up to start the final session!

Dan-cat wrote:Good lord Snookerarcher you are long, and late to the debate. <laugh>

It was just after he’d beat Robbo in the Grand Prix with that amazing frame needing two snookers, and that spell in the final session where he took us to that realm that no other player can do.


Another monumental comeback that stands out was I think the tour championship of 2019 semis, Judd took the day session 6-2 but Ronnie came back hard and in the decider the winner needed to pot the black to take it, Ronnie narrowly prevailed doing a victory fist clench & Judd gave the coldest, briefest handshake! People who say Judd doesn't fear Ronnie need to watch/rewatch that match. Judd was clearly shaken from Ronnie's comeback where he played near perfect/perfect snooker. But to Judd's credit and his fans would have relished the 3yrs that followed with Judd winning every match against Ronnie, till this year with Ronnie winning 2/2. Frontrunner yes the Rocket is the man but comebacks he's up there too!

Re: Betfred World Championship (Sat April 30th) Semi-Finals!

Postby TheRocket

The Tour Championship 2019 was the best Tour Championship by a mile. The bo25 three session final made it very special but they ruined it now. Also the fact that the quarter final was bo17, followed by the bo19 semi and the bo25 final made a lot more sense than three back to back bo19 matches where quarters, semis and final are all the same distance

Re: Betfred World Championship (Sat April 30th) Semi-Finals!

Postby SnookerArcher

Reg Varney wrote:
SnookerArcher wrote:
Scooper wrote:Finish this off Ronnie - had enough of honest John


Honest John lol, certainly not what a lot of fans call him on youtube, the exact opposite!


The "Honest John" is an ironic nickname, well it is whenever I used it.


From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcBD3b6HRG4

Daniel B
1 day ago
the wizard of fixing.

See rofl

Re: Betfred World Championship (Sat April 30th) Semi-Finals!

Postby SnookerArcher

Dan-cat wrote:That tour champs semi is my favourite match.


Good pick! 2018-19 was a phenomenal Ronnie season, yes 2017-18 was 5 ranking titles but 18-19 is to date his highest grossing in prize money, even better than his world title seasons with £500k prize money. So all the more tragic how he lost in Round 2 to Ali Carter who he was 1 opponent he had a perfect record against & then 2019 even worse, all he achieved that season. Surpassing Hendry's 18 triple crowns, Davis' 6 UK championship wins, 1000 centuries, return to no.1 and tying Hendry's 36 ranking tournament wins to lose in the first round of the Crucible. Guess he did too much in those 2, is a major ask with how long and busy the seasons are now for someone to be strong all season, Selby somehow did 2016-17 but he's not been the same since (He looked haggard in the following season), okay he won 2021's world title at least & could have prev year.

TheRocket wrote:The Tour Championship 2019 was the best Tour Championship by a mile. The bo25 three session final made it very special but they ruined it now. Also the fact that the quarter final was bo17, followed by the bo19 semi and the bo25 final made a lot more sense than three back to back bo19 matches where quarters, semis and final are all the same distance


Thanks didn't know they changed it, haven't watched it much since 2019. Yes better older format, much better & it's an advantage to the finalists playing a bof25 leading up to the Crucible. With OBVIOUS bias I tend to follow snooker more closely when the reigning world champion is someone I like, hearing Selby announced as reigning world champion and/or world no.1 isn't music to my ears hehe. I most likely will make more effort with 2022-23 & I do like the ITV tournament coverages, they're very good at the frame analyses & not as PC as BBC coverages.

Re: Betfred World Championship (Sat April 30th) Semi-Finals!

Postby TheRocket

Prop wrote:
TheRocket wrote:Anyone who is interested. Both semi finals , full length.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_2u7gOgVqo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcBD3b6HRG4


Nice! I watched on BBC at the time so it’ll be good to watch again with the ES commentators. Although the Ron vs Higgins match starts with Studd…


First two sessions are Eurosport, 3rd and 4th are BBC in the Ronnie match. Foulds/Hendon commentating the 2nd session so thats pretty good.

There is no doubt that 'Channel Snooker' is probably the best Snooker channel on youtube atm. Only channel that shows matches in full length unlike all the other ones where you only get this shortcut stuff and where you only see the shots and not the in between moments.

Re: Betfred World Championship (Sat April 30th) Semi-Finals!

Postby Holden Chinaski

TheRocket wrote:
Prop wrote:
TheRocket wrote:Anyone who is interested. Both semi finals , full length.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_2u7gOgVqo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcBD3b6HRG4


Nice! I watched on BBC at the time so it’ll be good to watch again with the ES commentators. Although the Ron vs Higgins match starts with Studd…


First two sessions are Eurosport, 3rd and 4th are BBC in the Ronnie match. Foulds/Hendon commentating the 2nd session so thats pretty good.

There is no doubt that 'Channel Snooker' is probably the best Snooker channel on youtube atm. Only channel that shows matches in full length unlike all the other ones where you only get this shortcut stuff and where you only see the shots and not the in between moments.

Cool. I just subscribed. I hate the shortcut vids. :hatoff:

Re: Betfred World Championship (Sat April 30th) Semi-Finals!

Postby SnookerArcher

Holden Chinaski wrote:

Cool. I just subscribed. I hate the shortcut vids. :hatoff:


Goede avond/Bonsoir
Yes the suspense is stripped, not a bad thing for slow players like Ebdon & Selby but pretty needless for Ronnie & other fast players, plus I like the commentary in snooker, just skipping to the shot cuts most of it out.