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End of frame with black ball remaining

Postby muddy397

In a recent game, my opponent was leading by 6 points. The pink and black balls are still on the table. My opponent pockets the pink ball and he is now leading by 12 points. The black ball still remains on the table.

- Does he win by default at this stage before pocketing the black ball? OR
- Does the game still continue since there is a slight possibility of him committing a foul on the black ball?

In fact, we continued the game and he did commit a foul on the black. I, then, proceeded to pocket the black ball and win the frame, leading by 2 points.

Re: End of frame with black ball remaining

Postby acesinc

muddy397 wrote:In a recent game, my opponent was leading by 6 points. The pink and black balls are still on the table. My opponent pockets the pink ball and he is now leading by 12 points. The black ball still remains on the table.

- Does he win by default at this stage before pocketing the black ball? OR
- Does the game still continue since there is a slight possibility of him committing a foul on the black ball?

In fact, we continued the game and he did commit a foul on the black. I, then, proceeded to pocket the black ball and win the frame, leading by 2 points.


Sorry Muddy, you lost. Informally, the frame is complete the instant the Pink fell in the pocket and other balls came to rest without a foul having been committed. The striker (he who potted the Pink) was not in fact obliged to play at the Black at all; he certainly may if he wishes but he could just shake your hand without a stroke at the Black. Formally, by the Rules of Snooker, Section 2., Rule 4. (a): "When Black is the only object ball remaining on the table, the first score or foul ends the frame..." so if the striker does in fact choose to strike at the Black as in the case of your opponent, then three things may happen: 1) he pots it and is credited with seven more points to the "official" final score, 2) he commits a foul (whether or not Black remains on the table afterward is irrelevant) and he is penalized by YOU receiving seven more points for the "official" final score, still not enough for you to win, but you are not allowed to play on (see point 3)), or 3) he strikes at Black, does not pot, no foul, just a fair stroke....so you may think it is your turn now, but it is NOT...in NORMAL snooker, since there are not enough points for you to win available, you in essence are forced to concede the frame at this point.

There is a possibility that you may continue to play at the Black in a special form of snooker in which "aggregate scores apply", but that variation is very rarely played. It basically means that instead of playing each frame for a separate "win" tally of 1 point per frame like normal, the aggregate score is continuously tracked over a set number of frames to determine the winner. So for instance, we could play a match of 3 frames, aggregate scores. So we would play frames one and two all the way through until Black is potted even if one player is far, far up on the scoreboard. So after three frames, the "match score" might be 230 to 170 or some other unusual sounding score to "normal snooker ears". With aggregate scores, you might run into the seemingly unusual situation that Player A "wins" both frame one and frame two by very close scores potting the Black ball, but Player B would win the MATCH by running a century in the third frame leaving Player A whitewashed. In the end, Player B finished with more aggregate points even though he only "won" one frame.

Re: End of frame with black ball remaining

Postby acesinc

muddy397 wrote:Acesinc, thank you for your prompt response. Clarified beyond doubt! Cheers!


Very happy to help my friend. But if you watch the Snooker on telly at all, I would suggest that subconsciously, you already knew this but the information simply did not come to your conscious memory. I will give you a couple of simple examples...

We all remember when Ronnie temporarily "refused" to pot the Black for his 147 in protest of the lack of prize money. It was and is perfectly within his right to do that. The frame (and match in this case) was over the instant the Pink was potted and no foul occurred, effective score of 140-0, so he went to shake hands with Mark King. We can all imagine what words Jan Verhaas had for Ronnie:

https://youtu.be/2di8RpAMNQQ?t=495

If you are an optimist with a cheery view of life, you know Jan Verhaas said, "Come on, Ronnie! Do it for your fans!" If you are a pessimist with a more gloomy outlook, then obviously, Jan Verhaas said, "Don't be a bell-end Ronnie! Pot the Black to entertain the people who pay your bills!" Obviously, in that case Ronnie had every intention of potting Black anyway as his position was perfect. His "protest" was really just slamming the Black into the pocket at 100 mph. If he really wanted to "shove it up the jacksies" of the WPBSA, he would have left White perfectly against the baulk cushion after Pink.

And then there is this most recent 147 of Judd Trump with the very difficult position he left himself on the final Black. Again, frame over after Pink went in with no foul but the striker has the right to continue play or not. So Judd pots Black, final score 147-0. But with such position, White might easily have gone in off into Yellow pocket for a foul on Black. Had that occurred, the final "official" score of the frame would be 140-7, but of course, the frame is complete no matter.