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Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby vodkadiet

Jester82 wrote:
Sonny wrote:I watched the 1993 UK Final recently and Ronnie was raw. I think he caught Hendry by surprise.


Yes, and two years later, Ronnie went out 13-8 at the WSC against Hendry...


O'Sullivan only beat Hendry at The Crucible after Hendry was finished as a contender.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Holden Chinaski

Sonny wrote:I watched the 1993 UK Final recently and Ronnie was raw. I think he caught Hendry by surprise.

Ronnie was not 18 years old yet at the time and he was playing his hero, prime Hendry, in the final of the UK Championship, of course he was a bit raw. And of course he caught Hendry by surprise. Surprised him again in 1997 I guess.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Jester82

Holden Chinaski wrote:
Sonny wrote:I watched the 1993 UK Final recently and Ronnie was raw. I think he caught Hendry by surprise.

Ronnie was not 18 years old yet at the time and he was playing his hero, prime Hendry, in the final of the UK Championship, of course he was a bit raw. And of course he caught Hendry by surprise. Surprised him again in 1997 I guess.


Well, WSC is the generally far more prestigious tournament, where Ronnie did not get a foot in...

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Roland

Holden Chinaski wrote:
Sonny wrote:I watched the 1993 UK Final recently and Ronnie was raw. I think he caught Hendry by surprise.

Ronnie was not 18 years old yet at the time and he was playing his hero, prime Hendry, in the final of the UK Championship, of course he was a bit raw. And of course he caught Hendry by surprise. Surprised him again in 1997 I guess.


He beat him fair and square both times but the first time I don't think Hendry expected he'd have to raise his game so much as he'd been the best player in the world for the previous 4 years and no one could touch him. I think he took it for granted but it was a welcome wake up call for him. By 1997 Ronnie was in the sort of form that if he turned up in the right frame of mind he won, but it was too few and far between.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby TheRocket

vodkadiet wrote:
Jester82 wrote:
Sonny wrote:I watched the 1993 UK Final recently and Ronnie was raw. I think he caught Hendry by surprise.


Yes, and two years later, Ronnie went out 13-8 at the WSC against Hendry...


O'Sullivan only beat Hendry at The Crucible after Hendry was finished as a contender.


Hendry was still strong in 2004. He reached the final of the UK Championship that year and won the British Open against a really good Ronnie in the final. But he was totally outplayed by an superb O'Sullivan in the WC semi. O'Sullivan was just a different league in 04 and 08.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Holden Chinaski

Whatever.

I was talking about how nobody could have beaten Ronnie in the 2005 Masters final, not even prime Hendry. Then someone answered me prime Hendry would have kept Ronnie in his seat. So I answered that's not true because Ronnie beat prime Hendry in two UK finals, and Ronnie was playing much better in the 2005 masters final than in the 1992 and 1997 UK finals. But now those UK finals don't count because it's not the world championship?????????

I am a big Hendry fan. Hendry was amazing in his prime. But the way Ronnie was playing in the 2005 Masters final against Higgins, nobody could have beaten him, not even prime Hendry.

That's all for me now.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Jester82

Holden Chinaski wrote:Whatever.

I was talking about how nobody could have beaten Ronnie in the 2005 Masters final, not even prime Hendry. Then someone answered me prime Hendry would have kept Ronnie in his seat. So I answered that's not true because Ronnie beat prime Hendry in two UK finals, and Ronnie was playing much better in the 2005 masters final than in the 1992 and 1997 UK finals. But now those UK finals don't count because it's not the world championship?????????

I am a big Hendry fan. Hendry was amazing in his prime. But the way Ronnie was playing in the 2005 Masters final against Higgins, nobody could have beaten him, not even prime Hendry.

That's all for me now.


Do we all have to share your opinion on this kind of wisdom about ROS?

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Holden Chinaski

Jester82 wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:Whatever.

I was talking about how nobody could have beaten Ronnie in the 2005 Masters final, not even prime Hendry. Then someone answered me prime Hendry would have kept Ronnie in his seat. So I answered that's not true because Ronnie beat prime Hendry in two UK finals, and Ronnie was playing much better in the 2005 masters final than in the 1992 and 1997 UK finals. But now those UK finals don't count because it's not the world championship?????????

I am a big Hendry fan. Hendry was amazing in his prime. But the way Ronnie was playing in the 2005 Masters final against Higgins, nobody could have beaten him, not even prime Hendry.

That's all for me now.


Do we all have to share your opinion on this kind of wisdom about ROS?

No, definitely not. But use good arguments. Not theories with holes in them.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Roland

That's why such arguments although good to have are ultimately down to opinion. Players peak at different times in their career, players hit purple patches where they play their best ever stuff. I remember watching Ronnie beat Hendry 8-0 in a session at the Crucible in 2008 and I swear blind I've never seen anyone play any better than that. He was absolutely phenomenal. I'm sure the 2005 Masters final was as you say, one of those performances but he's put in so many down the years it's hard to keep a track. I remember when he pumped Ding in the Masters final he was pretty flawless. And the 2001 UK final when Ronnie pumped Doherty 10-1, equally. But Hendry had his day as well where he played flawless snooker and overwhelmed the opponent.

It's pointless picking out certain performances and saying well x player was so good on that particular day he would have thrashed y player in the form he was in when he won x.

What you want is two players at the top of their game going head to head and not giving an inch like Robbo v Selby in this years semi. That match was as good a standard as any Hendry/Higgins/O'Sullivan/Williams encounter, trust me.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby GJ

Sonny wrote:That's why such arguments although good to have are ultimately down to opinion. Players peak at different times in their career, players hit purple patches where they play their best ever stuff. I remember watching Ronnie beat Hendry 8-0 in a session at the Crucible in 2008 and I swear blind I've never seen anyone play any better than that. He was absolutely phenomenal. I'm sure the 2005 Masters final was as you say, one of those performances but he's put in so many down the years it's hard to keep a track. I remember when he pumped Ding in the Masters final he was pretty flawless. And the 2001 UK final when Ronnie pumped Doherty 10-1, equally. But Hendry had his day as well where he played flawless snooker and overwhelmed the opponent.

It's pointless picking out certain performances and saying well x player was so good on that particular day he would have thrashed y player in the form he was in when he won x.

What you want is two players at the top of their game going head to head and not giving an inch like Robbo v Selby in this years semi. That match was as good a standard as any Hendry/Higgins/O'Sullivan/Williams encounter, trust me.



That final session was so enjoyable yes robbo lost but both were so good especially the long potting and there wasn't 1 easy pot missed In the whole session.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Jester82

Holden Chinaski wrote:
Jester82 wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:Whatever.

I was talking about how nobody could have beaten Ronnie in the 2005 Masters final, not even prime Hendry. Then someone answered me prime Hendry would have kept Ronnie in his seat. So I answered that's not true because Ronnie beat prime Hendry in two UK finals, and Ronnie was playing much better in the 2005 masters final than in the 1992 and 1997 UK finals. But now those UK finals don't count because it's not the world championship?????????

I am a big Hendry fan. Hendry was amazing in his prime. But the way Ronnie was playing in the 2005 Masters final against Higgins, nobody could have beaten him, not even prime Hendry.

That's all for me now.


Do we all have to share your opinion on this kind of wisdom about ROS?

No, definitely not. But use good arguments. Not theories with holes in them.


You came up with a hypothesis, which states, that one of Ronnie's performances was so outstanding, no other player would have stood a chance that day...and then you talk about leaky arguments. Get outta here!
If there is no argument, one does not need to counter. Therefore no holes at all.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Roland

The whole match was a brilliant standard. There was one short phase where both went AWOL and missed a few but it soon got back on track. The current two best match players in the game today. What a match. I'll never forget it.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Roland

Yes it was absolutely brutal. Both players dish it out to other players on a regular basis and then when they lock horns it either turns into a stalemate or a classic and this was definitely a classic. Both players believing their form was good enough to beat the other and delivering whenever they got the chance. Overall you have to say the right man won, Selby was ever so slightly better throughout the match, but Robbo refused to go away. It was huge credit to both players and along with the International final between Ding and Fu was the best match of the season.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Harrison101

Agreed with Skull, that semi-final was the match of the tournament. Two of the best in the world going to head-to-head and just trading shots and haymakers for 30+ frames. That and the final was a great advert for the game and I hope it turns Mark Selby into a mainstream star, because he's ideal for it.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Ayrshirebhoy

NNear wrote:
Ayrshirebhoy wrote:Ronnie will most defo win more tourneys!


What about Higgins?

Is it really so unreasonable to think he could put together a last flourish and be strong for a couple of years?

Would be great if it happens. I hope it does, though I appreciate most think it won't happen and it probably won't.


I don't think he'll win another, he's had slumps before but age is starting to take affect. This will be an important season for him. Will he stay on if he has another bad season?

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby NNear

Ayrshirebhoy wrote:
NNear wrote:
Ayrshirebhoy wrote:Ronnie will most defo win more tourneys!


What about Higgins?

Is it really so unreasonable to think he could put together a last flourish and be strong for a couple of years?

Would be great if it happens. I hope it does, though I appreciate most think it won't happen and it probably won't.


I don't think he'll win another, he's had slumps before but age is starting to take affect. This will be an important season for him. Will he stay on if he has another bad season?


Dunno but here's hoping he can find some form and get it back together. I don't know how motivated he is, but maybe he at least has another ranker in him even if it's not one of the biggest ones.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Wildey

Holden Chinaski wrote:
Jester82 wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:Whatever.

I was talking about how nobody could have beaten Ronnie in the 2005 Masters final, not even prime Hendry. Then someone answered me prime Hendry would have kept Ronnie in his seat. So I answered that's not true because Ronnie beat prime Hendry in two UK finals, and Ronnie was playing much better in the 2005 masters final than in the 1992 and 1997 UK finals. But now those UK finals don't count because it's not the world championship?????????

I am a big Hendry fan. Hendry was amazing in his prime. But the way Ronnie was playing in the 2005 Masters final against Higgins, nobody could have beaten him, not even prime Hendry.

That's all for me now.


Do we all have to share your opinion on this kind of wisdom about ROS?

No, definitely not. But use good arguments. Not theories with holes in them.

With Respect its only a theary that a Prime Hendry wouldn't have beaten Ronnie in 2005 Nobody knows so sticking to facts would be better instead of all these pointless Arguaments

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Ronnie79

O'Sullivan will win another WC imo for the simple fact.there is a lack of new talent coming through at the moment to challenge for these titles.only 4 players in the top 30 are in their 20's.at the moment there are only about 3 players Selby , Robertson and Trump who can beat him over WC distance at the moment of course.