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Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby SnookerFan

masterdoctorgenius wrote:http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/weird-news/video-jodie-mcnie-shows-ronnie-3506864

Should i cry or laugh???


What a pointless article.

Was the 8 year old making it in an important part of the World Championship final?
Last edited by SnookerFan on 07 May 2014, edited 1 time in total.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Andy Spark

Much as it pains me to say, well done Mark. My respect for him has gone up enormously for the simple reason that I have tremendous respect for long format events. While it's possible to fluke a World Championship it's unlikely. In most cases if you win it's because you've played fantastic snooker and if you win a best of 35 frame match by a few frames then it's likely you simply played the best snooker over the two days.

The truth is that for the whole Championship I never felt Ronnie had the consistency in his snooker that he had enjoyed in 2012 or 2013. Maybe the expectation levels, maybe the problems with his tip, maybe just going through a bipolar low or maybe just feeling the first signs of age related decline, one of those reasons (or a combination of them) is probably true. I think all Ronnie fans are just hoping it isn't the first signs of age related decline. :-(

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby SnookerFan

Andy Spark wrote:Much as it pains me to say, well done Mark. My respect for him has gone up enormously for the simple reason that I have tremendous respect for long format events. While it's possible to fluke a World Championship it's unlikely. In most cases if you win it's because you've played fantastic snooker and if you win a best of 35 frame match by a few frames then it's likely you simply played the best snooker over the two days.

The truth is that for the whole Championship I never felt Ronnie had the consistency in his snooker that he had enjoyed in 2012 or 2013. Maybe the expectation levels, maybe the problems with his tip, maybe just going through a bipolar low or maybe just feeling the first signs of age related decline, one of those reasons (or a combination of them) is probably true. I think all Ronnie fans are just hoping it isn't the first signs of age related decline. :-(


I doubt it.

The guy played some of his worst snooker, and stil got to the final. If he was playing even 50% of his best, he'd have won the title.

He has at least one more world title in him, I reckon. The question is, can he make it to 8 to beat Hendry?

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Andy Spark

SnookerFan wrote:
Andy Spark wrote:Much as it pains me to say, well done Mark. My respect for him has gone up enormously for the simple reason that I have tremendous respect for long format events. While it's possible to fluke a World Championship it's unlikely. In most cases if you win it's because you've played fantastic snooker and if you win a best of 35 frame match by a few frames then it's likely you simply played the best snooker over the two days.

The truth is that for the whole Championship I never felt Ronnie had the consistency in his snooker that he had enjoyed in 2012 or 2013. Maybe the expectation levels, maybe the problems with his tip, maybe just going through a bipolar low or maybe just feeling the first signs of age related decline, one of those reasons (or a combination of them) is probably true. I think all Ronnie fans are just hoping it isn't the first signs of age related decline. :-(


I doubt it.

The guy played some of his worst snooker, and stil got to the final. If he was playing even 50% of his best, he'd have won the title.

He has at least one more world title in him, I reckon. The question is, can he make it to 8 to beat Hendry?

He probably won't make 8. The chances of him making 6 have now taken a bash, you tend to get mental scars from losing from 10-5 up against a player or when a World title run comes to an end. Look at Steve Davis or Stephen Hendry. Steve lost to Dennis and then immediately lost to Johnson the year after and then Stehen Hendry lost to Ken and missed out the next year too. Ronnie's odds on winning it in 2015 have now taken a bashing, Dr Peters has his work cut out to get him back in title winning shape for next year.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Andy Spark

Wildey wrote:Mark Selby won the title on page 84 its now page 101 lol

Sometimes the emotions need to settle to see things more clearly. If I'd posted on page 85 I would have probably said something like "buck off Selby", it would have not been the most valuable contribution to the debate.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Andy Spark

For what it's worth I believe that this is the beginning of age related decline for O'Sullivan. The classic signs were there. :-( It will be long drawn out, there will be moments of title wins, maybe major wins, but it's now a general downward path. :-(

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Ayrshirebhoy

Andy Spark wrote:For what it's worth I believe that this is the beginning of age related decline for O'Sullivan. The classic signs were there. :-( It will be long drawn out, there will be moments of title wins, maybe major wins, but it's now a general downward path. :-(


If ronnie always threatened to quit when he was playing good, imagine what he'll do when he's playing crap.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby vodkadiet

Andy Spark wrote:For what it's worth I believe that this is the beginning of age related decline for O'Sullivan. The classic signs were there. :-( It will be long drawn out, there will be moments of title wins, maybe major wins, but it's now a general downward path. :-(


A year is a long time when you get to O'Sullivan's age. A stark decline wouldn't be surprising. In addition, the mental scars of losing a first World Final, particularly from so far ahead will surely have a long lasting effect on him.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby GJ

Hes 39 this year so despite his natural ability decline will still happen and who knows how quick the decline will be as all players are different.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Skullman

vodkadiet wrote:I was amazed to find that O'Sullivan was only 9/4 to win next year's Championships. Robertson at 8/1 looks the value.


Well despite being in age related decline apparently, he still reached the final of the World for the third time in a row and won two matches with a session to spare. If he hadn't tun into Selby or perhaps Robertson, he still could've been World Champion right now.

Bookies aren't charities and they don't make money giving generous odds on someone who can still switch it on and blow away most of the tour.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby vodkadiet

Skullman wrote:Yeah, look at Higgins in 2011 who even had a similar season, winning lots of tournaments, and only losing one match (two if you include PTCs).

A year later, he was a shadow of his former self.


Yes, Higgins is 33/1 for next year's World's. He was talking of winning 7 World Titles just after winning in 2011.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby vodkadiet

Skullman wrote:
vodkadiet wrote:I was amazed to find that O'Sullivan was only 9/4 to win next year's Championships. Robertson at 8/1 looks the value.


Well despite being in age related decline apparently, he still reached the final of the World for the third time in a row and won two matches with a session to spare. If he hadn't tun into Selby or perhaps Robertson, he still could've been World Champion right now.

Bookies aren't charities and they don't make money giving generous odds on someone who can still switch it on and blow away most of the tour.


Just after he won last year, he was 5/1 for this year's. Surely he had more chance of winning in 2014 than he has now of winning in 2015?
Last edited by vodkadiet on 07 May 2014, edited 1 time in total.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby GJ

I recall for 2012 worlds bookies had Higgins short odds after his 2011 win so it shows they don't like to take a big risk in lengthening odds too much for the big names just in case they hit form.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Wildey

Skullman wrote:
vodkadiet wrote:I was amazed to find that O'Sullivan was only 9/4 to win next year's Championships. Robertson at 8/1 looks the value.


Well despite being in age related decline apparently, he still reached the final of the World for the third time in a row and won two matches with a session to spare. If he hadn't tun into Selby or perhaps Robertson, he still could've been World Champion right now.

Bookies aren't charities and they don't make money giving generous odds on someone who can still switch it on and blow away most of the tour.

in 1998/1999 Hendry had a very poor season and the decline had set in he still became World Champion and won another 4 tournaments.

Ronnie is a brilliant player and when he is in full decline it could take 5 or 6 years before it hits and you wake up one morning and say buck me its been 2 years since i won anything.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby mantorok

Andy Spark wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:
Andy Spark wrote:Much as it pains me to say, well done Mark. My respect for him has gone up enormously for the simple reason that I have tremendous respect for long format events. While it's possible to fluke a World Championship it's unlikely. In most cases if you win it's because you've played fantastic snooker and if you win a best of 35 frame match by a few frames then it's likely you simply played the best snooker over the two days.

The truth is that for the whole Championship I never felt Ronnie had the consistency in his snooker that he had enjoyed in 2012 or 2013. Maybe the expectation levels, maybe the problems with his tip, maybe just going through a bipolar low or maybe just feeling the first signs of age related decline, one of those reasons (or a combination of them) is probably true. I think all Ronnie fans are just hoping it isn't the first signs of age related decline. :-(


I doubt it.

The guy played some of his worst snooker, and stil got to the final. If he was playing even 50% of his best, he'd have won the title.

He has at least one more world title in him, I reckon. The question is, can he make it to 8 to beat Hendry?

He probably won't make 8. The chances of him making 6 have now taken a bash, you tend to get mental scars from losing from 10-5 up against a player or when a World title run comes to an end. Look at Steve Davis or Stephen Hendry. Steve lost to Dennis and then immediately lost to Johnson the year after and then Stehen Hendry lost to Ken and missed out the next year too. Ronnie's odds on winning it in 2015 have now taken a bashing, Dr Peters has his work cut out to get him back in title winning shape for next year.


TBH I was more dissapointed on him missing the 6 mark than just losing in general, I really thought that if he made 6 he would have a great chance of at least equalling the legend.

He would have to apply himself, and really apply himself if he is win more, and that's easier said than done. It still wouldn't surprise me if he won one more, and let's face it, the chance of other players making 6 is going to be fairly difficult to reach.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby mantorok

vodkadiet wrote:
Andy Spark wrote:For what it's worth I believe that this is the beginning of age related decline for O'Sullivan. The classic signs were there. :-( It will be long drawn out, there will be moments of title wins, maybe major wins, but it's now a general downward path. :-(


A year is a long time when you get to O'Sullivan's age. A stark decline wouldn't be surprising. In addition, the mental scars of losing a first World Final, particularly from so far ahead will surely have a long lasting effect on him.


What are you wittling on about? You do realise that a lot of the current WCs won after losing in a final beforehand don't you?

I don't think this will bother him at all after a few days, he's got respect for Mark and knew he underperformed himself, he's not really going to be that beat up about it.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby vodkadiet

Skullman wrote:And he was being lauded as being the greatest player ever after that win by Davis, which seemed silly at the time and downright laughable now (in terms of achievements).


Davis has spent the last decade trying to convince the public that anyone other than Hendry is greatest player ever. It is impossible for him to mention the name 'Ronnie O'Sullivan' without attaching 'greatest player of all time' at the end of his name.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby vodkadiet

Wildey wrote:
Skullman wrote:
vodkadiet wrote:I was amazed to find that O'Sullivan was only 9/4 to win next year's Championships. Robertson at 8/1 looks the value.


Well despite being in age related decline apparently, he still reached the final of the World for the third time in a row and won two matches with a session to spare. If he hadn't tun into Selby or perhaps Robertson, he still could've been World Champion right now.

Bookies aren't charities and they don't make money giving generous odds on someone who can still switch it on and blow away most of the tour.

in 1998/1999 Hendry had a very poor season and the decline had set in he still became World Champion and won another 4 tournaments.

Ronnie is a brilliant player and when he is in full decline it could take 5 or 6 years before it hits and you wake up one morning and say buck me its been 2 years since i won anything.


Hendry was 30. O'Sullivan is 40. Big difference.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Skullman

Still, a lot of legends have last finals that you couldn't believe will be their last at the time.

Davis beat Parrott 18-3, still a record, and then never got to the final again, let alone won another.

Same with MJW who survived a fightback from 10-2 (I think?) and had won all three BBC majors (as well the LG Cup the other BBC event at the time) all in the same season. Again, never got to another final and didn't really close apart from 2011.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby Cloud Strife

Andy Spark wrote:
Wildey wrote:Mark Selby won the title on page 84 its now page 101 lol

Sometimes the emotions need to settle to see things more clearly. If I'd posted on page 85 I would have probably said something like "buck off Selby", it would have not been the most valuable contribution to the debate.


I think a year ago I would have reacted the same way. buck off Selby, that is.

Re: World Championship Final: Ronnie O'Sullivan v Mark Selby

Postby vodkadiet

Skullman wrote:Still, a lot of legends have last finals that you couldn't believe will be their last at the time.

Davis beat Parrott 18-3, still a record, and then never got to the final again, let alone won another.

Same with MJW who survived a fightback from 10-2 (I think?) and had won all three BBC majors (as well the LG Cup the other BBC event at the time) all in the same season. Again, never got to another final and didn't really close apart from 2011.


Yes, he was leading Doherty 10-2 at one stage. I think fatherhood made MJW a big softie and he rarely looked dangerous again after his first child was born.