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Re: Mark Selby 2014 World Champion

Postby Roland

Skullman wrote:I think that neck injury really set him back (more so than we thought).

At the Welsh Open I think he really started to feel comfortable win his WN1 position. Then he got into the latter stages more and started the China Open like a train, smashing his opponent.

After the injury, he obviously had that loss to Hawkins, but I think he lost confidence in his game and with the exception of his matches against Mavis in the UK, Robbo in the Masters and Ding and Un-Nooh in Berlin, didn't look that great throughout the season, despite winning more.

Same with this season, with some good matches (Murphy in the Masters, Antwerp PTC, Mags in the Coc) but generally getting by on pure grit.

Luckily something just clicked this fortnight.


Yes he was really coming into form when that neck injury struck. I remember at the time there was talk of it being career ending. I had gone on about him so much and I would have been completely and utterly gutted if it had ended his career because I knew I was right about him, and thankfully he recovered and finally I've been vindicated.

Re: Mark Selby 2014 World Champion

Postby NNear

Sonny wrote:I know I like to rattle on about Selby but hell, if today isn't the day to do that then I don't know what is.



Keep going, it's a forum after all. This is Selby's time and it's great you're still buzzing off the win and want to talk about Mark Selby the player and the man. Please can you choose Selby for your next player analysis? His tactics are absolutely superb and it's the right time, I think.

Key areas:

-Safety tactics
-Overarching tactics/patience -- use frames from the final to show how he shut Ronnie out and forced errors through his own brilliant vision of the table.
-Break building
-Temperament
-Inventiveness
-Weaknesses
-Compare to other players... why/how is Selby's break building or safety different to Ding's, other players, the norm, etc.

Also his nuances.. how he ties balls up, how he's so good at spotting pots or tricks and then puts his opponents in trouble.. how he spots shots with elements of safety that other players miss.. how his pool background filters over into his snooker background and offers him a field of vision that is currently unique on the tour regarding tactical nuance.

Re: Mark Selby 2014 World Champion

Postby Wildey

Sonny wrote:He's going to take some stopping next season.

yea Mark has now had the monkey off his back the one thing that was burdening him for the last 7 years a bit like Ding winning in shanghai this season it just took some of the pressure off his shoulders.

Re: Mark Selby 2014 World Champion

Postby gallantrabbit

Mark's win is such a good thing for him obviously, but also for snooker. You can't keep having a part-timer popping up and taking home all the Money even if that part-timer is Ronnie.
It is also good that Mark showed that there is more than one way to skin a cat. Three breaks over 70 in the final?
His safety is wonderfully creative and his atitude was 'whatever it takes' which really is what professional sport is all about. Too many top top players have collapsed against Ronnie in recente years and he really needed standing up to. Mark has done that superbly.
He's a good ambassador for the game too, a superb professional, not at all precious and willingt to promote the game.
I am very disappointed however with the WSA press office that in most newspapers has managed just a few lines on Ronnie's accident and very little on the match itself. Shame on you. Work harder.
Finally a little credit to Ronnie for growing up. Nice speech at the end and a stop to his headlines for headlines sake.
All in all a great finish to a championship that for a while looked like being a procession and huge let down. Selby's semi with Robbo was superb as was the final.
Game in good shape.

Re: Mark Selby 2014 World Champion

Postby Wildey

I Loved the way at last the commentators pin pointing the creative and attacking way he plays safety shots.

Yea he takes his time thinking about them but thats because he is trying to put the ball in the right place for maximum effect.

Re: Mark Selby 2014 World Champion

Postby webcat86

You can't take away how well he played tactically in that match, but I must admit I'm also surprised no one has mentioned how incredibly lucky Selby got in that match.

This has nothing to do with his opponent being Ronnie i.e. it wasn't "He was lucky because Ronnie wasn't on fire" - Ronnie played a very good game himself. But there was one frame in particular, in the Monday morning session I believe, where Selby missed 6 consecutive shots by some distance, and each of them put Ronnie in unintended snookers or with no option but to play safe. If memory serves, Ronnie had enough points and the balls were nicely placed for only one chance to be needed.

Someone on Twitter summed it up - "they need a luck stat for Selby" in that match. I'm fully aware, as we all are, that a nice run of the balls is part of the game, but for me it was just ridiculous. And simultaneously, Ronnie was getting the opposite - the opening frames of the final sessions he came out all guns blazing, well on the way to a one-visit win and the pack didn't split well, and the second time the cue ball nestled just behind a red, blocking his shot. Again, this happens, it's part of the game, but I do get frustrated when in any match - with any players - one gets all the good luck and the other gets all the bad luck.

I honestly think that match would have had a different outcome. It's a psychology as much as anything else - even the commentators acknowledged that a) Selby wasn't playing very well, and b) he was getting repeated good fortune that allowed him to win frames. On any other day, if the cue ball had stopped where it would have 99.9% of the time, I have no doubt at all he would have lost that match. But clawing back a deficit by playing far from your best and getting extraordinary luck puts your opponent on the back foot - not least when they get the opposite fortune when it's their turn.

Of course, I'm not claiming that it was all out of Ronnie's hands - that missed pink I think was far more vital than he let on in the post-match interview; after all, it would have then been Ronnie and not Selby entering the final session with a lead, and I'm sure that would have had some impact on it.

tl;dr: fair play to Selby, he eventually played well and there's no doubt his safety was top notch and he played how he had to play in order to win. But, he also had more good luck than I think I've ever seen (including Mr Lucky himself, Trump), and without it, I am confident he would have lost. His playing throughout, especially long pots, was not brilliant - he was missing pots by a country mile. The good fortune eventually seemed to pick up his confidence enough to actually play properly, and go on to win.

Re: Mark Selby 2014 World Champion

Postby Wildey

in a 35 frame match luck even itself out and there was times Ronnie missed a pot and got it safe it happens always have and always will.

You dont win 26 ranking titles without a bit of luck on the way.

ill be honest here when Ronnie loses this luck talk happens all the time like a broken record from one person or another its as if getting luck vs Ronnie is seen as sacrilegious.

Re: Mark Selby 2014 World Champion

Postby webcat86

Wildey wrote:in a 35 frame match luck even itself out and there was times Ronnie missed a pot and got it safe it happens always have and always will.

You dont win 26 ranking titles without a bit of luck on the way.

ill be honest here when Ronnie loses this luck talk happens all the time like a broken record from one person or another its as if getting luck vs Ronnie is seen as sacrilegious.


Well you totally overlooked the parts where I said it had nothing to do with Ronnie being the opponent, Ronnie making mistakes, and how it annoys me regardless of who is playing.

And no, I don't think luck does always even itself out. I think it often does, but there are times when luck is far more important - six consecutive flukes to win a frame you have no right to win can make a tremendous difference on a match.

Wildey wrote:ill be honest here when Ronnie loses this luck talk happens all the time like a broken record from one person or another its as if getting luck vs Ronnie is seen as sacrilegious.


The counter to this is any time it's said something happened against Ronnie's favour, people like yourself are quick to state it's only being said because of Ronnie fans. Why is it every player can have some element of luck work against them, but not Ronnie?

Re: Mark Selby 2014 World Champion

Postby Wildey

everyone gets luck against them but it does become a bigger deal when Ronnie has it against him by the way its generally speaking and not particularly you.

i do concede there was an element of luck selby had but it was a small percentage in the grand scheme of a best of 35 frame match..there was other eliments why Ronnie lost but the focus is on how lucky he got or Ronnie missed pots its not all about Ronnie.

Re: Mark Selby 2014 World Champion

Postby webcat86

Wildey wrote:everyone gets luck against them but it does become a bigger deal when Ronnie has it against him by the way its generally speaking and not particularly you.

i do concede there was an element of luck selby had but it was a small percentage in the grand scheme of a best of 35 frame match..there was other eliments why Ronnie lost but the focus is on how lucky he got or Ronnie missed pots its not all about Ronnie.


Your point of "generally speaking" - I agree. I've noticed it plenty of times, which is why I tried to distance myself from it immediately in my first post today.

It's not all about Ronnie, no, and I've not said it was. Frankly I think Selby had much more than "a small percentage" of luck in the match, it was beyond ridiculous. Ronnie had a small percentage of luck - can't deny that he got a couple of unintended snookers behind the baulk colours after overhitting a safety. He certainly had nowhere near the level of luck Selby had though - I lost count of how many times he missed a shot by a long way, and ended up leaving the table totally safe. Without leaving those tables safe, I could easily see Ronnie winning 3 frames more, at least. Which would have impeded Selby's slow journey to decent form in the match.

Obviously it's also entirely possible it wouldn't have made any difference and Selby would have won anyway. We can't predict what would or could have happened - but we also can't deny the impact good fortune had on Selby's win that day. Until the final session, his playing was not World Champion standard. His safety was near perfect, but his potting wasn't, he wasn't making chances either. Nothing wrong with that, but I don't think it's representative to say he actually outplayed Ronnie - Selby had one part of his game really working for 3/4 of that match, and a hell of a lot of luck. Both things that were repeated by each of the commentators throughout the match, and I think a much more balanced view than the rabid "Ronnie can't do anything wrong" camp would admit. Ronnie made mistakes and missed balls that again could have altered the match's outcome.

Re: Mark Selby 2014 World Champion

Postby Wildey

Lets agree to disagree because as someone who wanted Selby to win i lost count how many times i called Ronnie a lucky bastard.

Re: Mark Selby 2014 World Champion

Postby vodkadiet

In any match one player will be luckier than the other. Snooker players know that and accept it. Was Selby luckier than O'Sullivan? I had never really thought about it until now, so it wasn't strikingly obvious. A fan of any particular player can always find instances where their favourite was 'unlucky' or 'hard done by'. I am sure If O'Sullivan had won, Selby fans could have pointed to incidents in the match where O'Sullivan was lucky.

Snooker, more than most other sports has luck playing a big part of a result. Bill Werbeniuk lost 13-3 to Cliff Thorburn once and claimed if the luck had been even he would have won the match!

O'Sullivan was very lucky to beat Joe Perry in the 2nd round. For those who are in doubt, take a look at the final session of that match. In one frame, O'Sullivan fluked an initial red and made a century from it, and even more importantly when Perry was on the verge of going 12-10 up O'Sullivan had some enormous luck in the rest of that frame. Perry went in to the pack and knocked another ball in(or the cue ball went in). O'Sullivan then missed a long red, which fractionally ran safe, where Perry would have certainly cleared up, at the same time O'Sullivan had missed his intended cue ball position which again would have left Perry in for a 12-10 kill. O'Sullivan then got in for a clearance off of an initial red that rattled 5 or 6 times in the jaws, before gravity took hold. Without all that luck O'Sullivan would have probably not seen the quarters and beyond.

Re: Mark Selby 2014 World Champion

Postby webcat86

vodkadiet wrote:In any match one player will be luckier than the other. Snooker players know that and accept it. Was Selby luckier than O'Sullivan? I had never really thought about it until now, so it wasn't strikingly obvious. A fan of any particular player can always find instances where their favourite was 'unlucky' or 'hard done by'. I am sure If O'Sullivan had won, Selby fans could have pointed to incidents in the match where O'Sullivan was lucky.

Snooker, more than most other sports has luck playing a big part of a result. Bill Werbeniuk lost 13-3 to Cliff Thorburn once and claimed if the luck had been even he would have won the match!

O'Sullivan was very lucky to beat Joe Perry in the 2nd round. For those who are in doubt, take a look at the final session of that match. In one frame, O'Sullivan fluked an initial red and made a century from it, and even more importantly when Perry was on the verge of going 12-10 up O'Sullivan had some enormous luck in the rest of that frame. Perry went in to the pack and knocked another ball in(or the cue ball went in). O'Sullivan then missed a long red, which fractionally ran safe, where Perry would have certainly cleared up, at the same time O'Sullivan had missed his intended cue ball position which again would have left Perry in for a 12-10 kill. O'Sullivan then got in for a clearance off of an initial red that rattled 5 or 6 times in the jaws, before gravity took hold. Without all that luck O'Sullivan would have probably not seen the quarters and beyond.


Absolutely. Ronnie was lucky in that match - and I've always maintained Selby has enjoyed a lot of luck to win as many deciders as he has.

It would be wrong for anyone to say Ronnie wasn't at all lucky in his final - he was. We could argue he was "lucky" that Selby wasn't potting great at the beginning.

But my argument on this topic is the extent of the luck Selby had - 6 *consecutive* flukes resulting in snookers or no option other than safety is not usual. If we can all accept and agree that Ronnie was lucky to beat Perry, I think we should be able to accept Selby had a better than average run of the balls in his final.

Re: Mark Selby 2014 World Champion

Postby vodkadiet

webcat86 wrote:
vodkadiet wrote:In any match one player will be luckier than the other. Snooker players know that and accept it. Was Selby luckier than O'Sullivan? I had never really thought about it until now, so it wasn't strikingly obvious. A fan of any particular player can always find instances where their favourite was 'unlucky' or 'hard done by'. I am sure If O'Sullivan had won, Selby fans could have pointed to incidents in the match where O'Sullivan was lucky.

Snooker, more than most other sports has luck playing a big part of a result. Bill Werbeniuk lost 13-3 to Cliff Thorburn once and claimed if the luck had been even he would have won the match!

O'Sullivan was very lucky to beat Joe Perry in the 2nd round. For those who are in doubt, take a look at the final session of that match. In one frame, O'Sullivan fluked an initial red and made a century from it, and even more importantly when Perry was on the verge of going 12-10 up O'Sullivan had some enormous luck in the rest of that frame. Perry went in to the pack and knocked another ball in(or the cue ball went in). O'Sullivan then missed a long red, which fractionally ran safe, where Perry would have certainly cleared up, at the same time O'Sullivan had missed his intended cue ball position which again would have left Perry in for a 12-10 kill. O'Sullivan then got in for a clearance off of an initial red that rattled 5 or 6 times in the jaws, before gravity took hold. Without all that luck O'Sullivan would have probably not seen the quarters and beyond.


Absolutely. Ronnie was lucky in that match - and I've always maintained Selby has enjoyed a lot of luck to win as many deciders as he has.

It would be wrong for anyone to say Ronnie wasn't at all lucky in his final - he was. We could argue he was "lucky" that Selby wasn't potting great at the beginning.

But my argument on this topic is the extent of the luck Selby had - 6 *consecutive* flukes resulting in snookers or no option other than safety is not usual. If we can all accept and agree that Ronnie was lucky to beat Perry, I think we should be able to accept Selby had a better than average run of the balls in his final.


Now I think about it, Selby got a very lucky positional shot early in the 30th frame. O'Sullivan went in off, Selby played a green off the initial red, and got a very fortuitous kiss which led to him making a frame winning break. Without that kiss who knows what would have happened?

Re: Mark Selby 2014 World Champion

Postby Roland

I watched the final again and Selby certainly didn't get more luck than Ronnie, if anything Ronnie had a kinder rub overall and certainly on the first day. When Selby had those consecutive lucky snookers at 11-11 it still came down to O'Sullivan missing that dolly pink to middle so you could argue those fluked snookers counted for nothing. The most unlucky shot in the final was probably from O'Sullivan when he potted a red to green pocket and cannoned the green into the yellow pocket leaving a free ball and an easy out at a point when Selby had pretty much thrown an important frame away by allowing him the chance to pot the red to green pocket. I can't remember the frame, it was something like the frame to go 8-5 from 8-4 but it was a significant one.

Re: Mark Selby 2014 World Champion

Postby Wildey

By watching the match for the second time knowing the result and nerves and tension not as high you do look at the match differently

Re: Mark Selby 2014 World Champion

Postby Roland

That's why I watched it again. I could watch it with an open mind without getting nervous because I knew what happened. Selby was poor on day 1 but dug in and was much better on day 2, saving his best for the final session. Ronnie was way off the standard he played in 2012 and 2013, Selby played a lot of poor positional shots but each time took his medicine and stuck the white in the most awkward place he could think of.

When I was watching it I was trying to work out how anyone could complain about the way he played as boring or negative. There were one or two occasions and not many more than that when he could have played a more attacking shot but overall it came down sharp potting, he hardly missed an easy ball, but a few careless positional errors forcing the run to safety meaning Ronnie came to the table several times in most frames but each time with a tough table in front of him. That's the reason Selby hardly made any big breaks until later on when he had better control of the white.

What a last session though. Ronnie threw everything at him but he kept getting stronger and in the end it was Ronnie who was missing the pressure balls because he was frozen out for so much of the match. And that last clearance was sensational to win the world title.

Re: Mark Selby 2014 World Champion

Postby vodkadiet

Sonny wrote:That's why I watched it again. I could watch it with an open mind without getting nervous because I knew what happened. Selby was poor on day 1 but dug in and was much better on day 2, saving his best for the final session. Ronnie was way off the standard he played in 2012 and 2013, Selby played a lot of poor positional shots but each time took his medicine and stuck the white in the most awkward place he could think of.

When I was watching it I was trying to work out how anyone could complain about the way he played as boring or negative. There were one or two occasions and not many more than that when he could have played a more attacking shot but overall it came down sharp potting, he hardly missed an easy ball, but a few careless positional errors forcing the run to safety meaning Ronnie came to the table several times in most frames but each time with a tough table in front of him. That's the reason Selby hardly made any big breaks until later on when he had better control of the white.

What a last session though. Ronnie threw everything at him but he kept getting stronger and in the end it was Ronnie who was missing the pressure balls because he was frozen out for so much of the match. And that last clearance was sensational to win the world title.



Yes, you need to watch it again in the cold light of day to appreciate it more. When you are watching it live you can easily lose the thread of what happened.

Certainly an enjoyable watch. A week on already now. Time flies!

Re: Mark Selby 2014 World Champion

Postby SnookerFan

TWITTER ATTACK!

Mark Selby ‏@markjesterselby
As if things could not get any better! Me and vikki are expecting are first child!


Congratulations to both. :hatoff:

Re: Mark Selby 2014 World Champion

Postby vodkadiet

SnookerFan wrote:TWITTER ATTACK!

Mark Selby ‏@markjesterselby
As if things could not get any better! Me and vikki are expecting are first child!


Congratulations to both. :hatoff:


He/she will be named 'Ronnie Bunny Selby'.

:D

Re: Mark Selby 2014 World Champion

Postby Jester82

vodkadiet wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:TWITTER ATTACK!

Mark Selby ‏@markjesterselby
As if things could not get any better! Me and vikki are expecting are first child!


Congratulations to both. :hatoff:


He/she will be named 'Ronnie Bunny Selby'.

:D


Ronald Antonio Selby...works out for me... :clap: :parrot:

So, World title winner and a baby. A time to remember for Selby, as everything goes his way.

Re: Mark Selby 2014 World Champion

Postby JDM375

Andre147 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrtqTqsXL4U

Did any of you guys already knew about this?

:lol: <doh> :lol: <doh> :lol: <doh> :lol: <doh>

His show is just... disgusting... arrrrhhhh... and he's so so Ronnie biased (like also a few of Ronnie fanboys out there) that he manages to say things like this.

Anyway...... pmsl

Is that Burke? rofl

Re: Mark Selby 2014 World Champion

Postby vodkadiet

O'Sullivan and Keiser follow each other on Twitter. They love each other. Unfortunately Keiser doesn't understand snooker.

Re: Mark Selby 2014 World Champion

Postby mantorok

Andre147 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrtqTqsXL4U

Did any of you guys already knew about this?

:lol: <doh> :lol: <doh> :lol: <doh> :lol: <doh>

His show is just... disgusting... arrrrhhhh... and he's so so Ronnie biased (like also a few of Ronnie fanboys out there) that he manages to say things like this.

Anyway...... pmsl


Haha that is quite funny, but yeah not everyone in snooker is a break-building magician there are different contrasts and playing styles and TBF to Mark he had the hunger to win and he did what he needed to do to beat somone.

That's snooker and it's always been that way, like any sport you play to win not to look good. I also don't think this train of thought is limited to Ronnie fans, had it been Trump or Robertson playing Mark there would've still been bitter words because of how he won, you'll never escape that, every player has their fans and you'll always have some speak out against the victor.

The point is it doesn't take anything away from Mark who right now has that trophy on his mantelpiece and thoroughly deserves it, he's WC and that is all that really counts not rabid fanboy accusations.
Last edited by mantorok on 16 May 2014, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Mark Selby 2014 World Champion

Postby Jester82

vodkadiet wrote:O'Sullivan and Keiser follow each other on Twitter. They love each other. Unfortunately Keiser doesn't understand snooker.


Have you ever heard of O'Sullivan? :chin:

Is he a queer?...he certainly looks like a queer, he talks like a queer, so he is probably a queer...

Is Keiser a queer?...he certainly looks like Gilbert Gottfried, so probably he is a queer...

:chuckle: :chuckle:

Re: Mark Selby 2014 World Champion

Postby vodkadiet

Jester82 wrote:
vodkadiet wrote:O'Sullivan and Keiser follow each other on Twitter. They love each other. Unfortunately Keiser doesn't understand snooker.


Have you ever heard of O'Sullivan? :chin:

Is he a queer?...he certainly looks like a queer, he talks like a queer, so he is probably a queer...

Is Keiser a queer?...he certainly looks like Gilbert Gottfried, so probably he is a queer...

:chuckle: :chuckle:


I am not one for political correctness, but that shows signs of homophobia. There is no need for that. The woman he presents the show with is his fiancée.

It is actually an excellent show, but he was way out of his league on this occasion.

Re: Mark Selby 2014 World Champion

Postby Sickpotter

Andre147 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrtqTqsXL4U

Did any of you guys already knew about this?

:lol: <doh> :lol: <doh> :lol: <doh> :lol: <doh>

His show is just... disgusting... arrrrhhhh... and he's so so Ronnie biased (like also a few of Ronnie fanboys out there) that he manages to say things like this.

Anyway...... pmsl


Clueless lump, what a joke :roll:


   

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