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Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Pink Ball

My top ten is widely considered the definitive list. Here's how it looks after the 2016 UK Championship.

1. Ronnie O'Sullivan
2. Stephen Hendry
3. Steve Davis
4. John Higgins
5. Ray Reardon
6. Mark Williams
7. Alex Higgins
8. Mark Selby
9. Ding Junhui
10. Jimmy White

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby snucar

I will never decide the top 3 spots between these 3 monsters of a players, but this...

Pink Ball wrote:9. Ding Junhui
10. Jimmy White


...is a big absolutelyfucking NO! Not even close, really.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Pink Ball

snucar wrote:I will never decide the top 3 spots between these 3 monsters of a players, but this...

Pink Ball wrote:9. Ding Junhui
10. Jimmy White


...is a big absolutelyfucking NO! Not even close, really.


Majors: Ding 3-2 White
Ranking titles: Ding 12-10 White
Highest ranking: Ding 1st, White 2nd.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby snucar

Pink Ball wrote:
snucar wrote:I will never decide the top 3 spots between these 3 monsters of a players, but this...

Pink Ball wrote:9. Ding Junhui
10. Jimmy White


...is a big absolutelyfucking NO! Not even close, really.


Majors: Ding 3-2 White
Ranking titles: Ding 12-10 White
Highest ranking: Ding 1st, White 2nd.


I beg to differ. Ding has slightly better numbers than White, but do the numbers really tell always the truth? Then why Hendry and Davis are not above Ronnie? White's impact on snooker is vastly superior to Ding's, by a mile too. White is a living piece of history in the game, I just can't think of Ding that way.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Pink Ball

Numbers aren't the absolute measure, no, you're right, and I also agree White will be seen as the greater legend... but so what?
I genuinely believe Ding is better. And I adored Jimmy White.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Cloud Strife

snucar wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
snucar wrote:I will never decide the top 3 spots between these 3 monsters of a players, but this...

Pink Ball wrote:9. Ding Junhui
10. Jimmy White


...is a big absolutelyfucking NO! Not even close, really.


Majors: Ding 3-2 White
Ranking titles: Ding 12-10 White
Highest ranking: Ding 1st, White 2nd.


I beg to differ. Ding has slightly better numbers than White, but do the numbers really tell always the truth? Then why Hendry and Davis are not above Ronnie? White's impact on snooker is vastly superior to Ding's, by a mile too. White is a living piece of history in the game, I just can't think of Ding that way.


Ding is responsible for the huge Chinese snooker boom. In time, history will dictate Ding's contribution to snooker as far superior to Jimmy White.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Johnny Bravo

Is this about the "greatest" or about the "best" players in the history of the game, cause the 2 are not the same thing.

If it's about greatness, then my top 10 is:
1. Ronnie O'Sullivan
2. Alex Higgins
3. Jimmy White
4. Stephen Hendry
5. Steve Davis
6. Mark Williams
7. John Higgins
8. Joe Davis
9. Ray Reardon
10. Ding Junhui

If it's about who's the best (meaning peak ability):
1. Ronnie O'Sullivan
2. John Higgins
3. Neil Robertson
4. Judd Trump
5. Ding Junhui
6. Stephen Hendry
7. Mark Williams
8. Shaun Murphy
9. Jimmy White
10. Mark Selby

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby davisfan

1. Steve Davis
2. Joe Davis
3. Ronnie O'Sullivan
4. Stephen Hendry
5. John Higgins
6. Fred Davis
7. Ray Reardon
8. John Spencer
9. Alex Higgins
10. Jimmy White

Ding, Selby, Smurph and Trump can get to buck.

11. Mark Davis

Not really.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby PoolBoy

Johnny Bravo wrote:
If it's about greatness, then my top 10 is:
1. Ronnie O'Sullivan
2. Alex Higgins
3. Jimmy White
4. Stephen Hendry
5. Steve Davis
6. Mark Williams
7. John Higgins
8. Joe Davis
9. Ray Reardon
10. Ding Junhui


Hendry and Steve Davis below Jimmy?
Even Jimmy himself, would disagree with that 'ranking'! :no:

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby sas6789

Johnny Bravo wrote:Is this about the "greatest" or about the "best" players in the history of the game, cause the 2 are not the same thing.

If it's about greatness, then my top 10 is:
1. Ronnie O'Sullivan
2. Alex Higgins
3. Jimmy White
4. Stephen Hendry
5. Steve Davis
6. Mark Williams
7. John Higgins
8. Joe Davis
9. Ray Reardon
10. Ding Junhui

If it's about who's the best (meaning peak ability):
1. Ronnie O'Sullivan
2. John Higgins
3. Neil Robertson
4. Judd Trump
5. Ding Junhui
6. Stephen Hendry
7. Mark Williams
8. Shaun Murphy
9. Jimmy White
10. Mark Selby

Sorry but at the moment Judd Trump shouldn't be anywhere near a top 10 list

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Snooker-Fan2016

Top 10 in terms of greatness:

1. Stephen Hendry
2. RonnieO'Sullivan
3. Steve Davis
4. John Higgins
5. Ray Reardon
6. Mark Williams
7. Alex Higgins
8. Mark Selby
9. Ding Junhui
10. Jimmy White

Top 10 in terms of standard reached

1. Ronnie O'Sullivan
2. Stephen Hendry
3. John Higgins
4. Neil Robertson
5. Ding Junhui
6 Mark Williams
7. Judd Trump
8 Steve Davis
9. Jimmy White
10. Alex Higgins
Last edited by Snooker-Fan2016 on 28 Jan 2017, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Johnny Bravo

Snooker-Fan2016 wrote:Top 10 in terms of greatness:

1. Ronnie O'Sullivan
2. Stephen Hendry
3. Steve Davis
4. John Higgins
5. Ray Reardon
6. Mark Williams
7. Alex Higgins
8. Mark Selby
9. Ding Junhui
10. Jimmy White

Top 10 in terms of standard reached

1. Ronnie O'Sullivan
2. Stephen Hendry
3. John Higgins
4. Neil Robertson
5. Ding Junhui
6 Mark Williams
7. Judd Trump
8 Steve Davis
9. Jimmy White
10. Alex Higgins


GREATNESS:
IMO Alex Higgins is one of the reasons for snooker's ascension. From that perspective, he's ahead the likes of Reardon, Mark Williams and John Higgins.

As 4 peak ability/performance, Hendry is nowhere near top 3. From a break-building perspective, he's right up there with Ronnie, but he lacks the tactical and safety play to beat a top/peak form John Higgins or Neil Robertson.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Snooker-Fan2016

Johnny Bravo wrote:
Snooker-Fan2016 wrote:Top 10 in terms of greatness:

1. Ronnie O'Sullivan
2. Stephen Hendry
3. Steve Davis
4. John Higgins
5. Ray Reardon
6. Mark Williams
7. Alex Higgins
8. Mark Selby
9. Ding Junhui
10. Jimmy White

Top 10 in terms of standard reached

1. Ronnie O'Sullivan
2. Stephen Hendry
3. John Higgins
4. Neil Robertson
5. Ding Junhui
6 Mark Williams
7. Judd Trump
8 Steve Davis
9. Jimmy White
10. Alex Higgins


GREATNESS:
IMO Alex Higgins is one of the reasons for snooker's ascension. From that perspective, he's ahead the likes of Reardon, Mark Williams and John Higgins.

As 4 peak ability/performance, Hendry is nowhere near top 3. From a break-building perspective, he's right up there with Ronnie, but he lacks the tactical and safety play to beat a top/peak form John Higgins or Neil Robertson.

Hendry nowhere near top 2 ability wise?? No offence buddy but that's one of the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Ok Hendry didn't have the best safety game (not that he couldn't play safe when he had to) but his long potting and break building, positional pay and cur ball control was so strong and precise that he didn't even need a great safety game at his peak.

He could beat peak Higgins/Robertson or anyone else at his best and to put it frankly you know little about snooker if you think otherwise.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby sas6789

Johnny Bravo wrote:
Snooker-Fan2016 wrote:Top 10 in terms of greatness:

1. Ronnie O'Sullivan
2. Stephen Hendry
3. Steve Davis
4. John Higgins
5. Ray Reardon
6. Mark Williams
7. Alex Higgins
8. Mark Selby
9. Ding Junhui
10. Jimmy White

Top 10 in terms of standard reached

1. Ronnie O'Sullivan
2. Stephen Hendry
3. John Higgins
4. Neil Robertson
5. Ding Junhui
6 Mark Williams
7. Judd Trump
8 Steve Davis
9. Jimmy White
10. Alex Higgins


GREATNESS:
IMO Alex Higgins is one of the reasons for snooker's ascension. From that perspective, he's ahead the likes of Reardon, Mark Williams and John Higgins.

As 4 peak ability/performance, Hendry is nowhere near top 3. From a break-building perspective, he's right up there with Ronnie, but he lacks the tactical and safety play to beat a top/peak form John Higgins or Neil Robertson.

How the hell can the player that has won the most world titles, ranking titles, majors, more years ranked world number one than any other player and has the second most centuries and 147's of all the players in the history be nowhere near the top 3 in terms of peak ability/performance?

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Johnny Bravo

sas6789 wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:
Snooker-Fan2016 wrote:Top 10 in terms of greatness:

1. Ronnie O'Sullivan
2. Stephen Hendry
3. Steve Davis
4. John Higgins
5. Ray Reardon
6. Mark Williams
7. Alex Higgins
8. Mark Selby
9. Ding Junhui
10. Jimmy White

Top 10 in terms of standard reached

1. Ronnie O'Sullivan
2. Stephen Hendry
3. John Higgins
4. Neil Robertson
5. Ding Junhui
6 Mark Williams
7. Judd Trump
8 Steve Davis
9. Jimmy White
10. Alex Higgins


GREATNESS:
IMO Alex Higgins is one of the reasons for snooker's ascension. From that perspective, he's ahead the likes of Reardon, Mark Williams and John Higgins.

As 4 peak ability/performance, Hendry is nowhere near top 3. From a break-building perspective, he's right up there with Ronnie, but he lacks the tactical and safety play to beat a top/peak form John Higgins or Neil Robertson.

How the hell can the player that has won the most world titles, ranking titles, majors, more years ranked world number one than any other player and has the second most centuries and 147's of all the players in the history be nowhere near the top 3 in terms of peak ability/performance?


Because he won those titles in a weaker era against weaker opposition. The standard of play was nowhere near as high as it is nowadays.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Wildey

Hendry went from Picking up a cue for the very first time on a 6 ft kids table to winning his first ranking title in 5 years if that's not natural ability i don't know what is


Hendry did not need to compete on safeties with Higgins his potting and breakbuilding meant he could still compete and beat Higgins hence their Head to Head 18-18 and 181-180 frames won

this running Hendry down bucking crap has been boring for years from idiots that knows buck all about snooker so i don't know what the hell are they doing on a snooker website

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby vodkadiet

Johnny Bravo wrote:
sas6789 wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:
Snooker-Fan2016 wrote:Top 10 in terms of greatness:

1. Ronnie O'Sullivan
2. Stephen Hendry
3. Steve Davis
4. John Higgins
5. Ray Reardon
6. Mark Williams
7. Alex Higgins
8. Mark Selby
9. Ding Junhui
10. Jimmy White

Top 10 in terms of standard reached

1. Ronnie O'Sullivan
2. Stephen Hendry
3. John Higgins
4. Neil Robertson
5. Ding Junhui
6 Mark Williams
7. Judd Trump
8 Steve Davis
9. Jimmy White
10. Alex Higgins


GREATNESS:
IMO Alex Higgins is one of the reasons for snooker's ascension. From that perspective, he's ahead the likes of Reardon, Mark Williams and John Higgins.

As 4 peak ability/performance, Hendry is nowhere near top 3. From a break-building perspective, he's right up there with Ronnie, but he lacks the tactical and safety play to beat a top/peak form John Higgins or Neil Robertson.

How the hell can the player that has won the most world titles, ranking titles, majors, more years ranked world number one than any other player and has the second most centuries and 147's of all the players in the history be nowhere near the top 3 in terms of peak ability/performance?


Because he won those titles in a weaker era against weaker opposition. The standard of play was nowhere near as high as it is nowadays.


This weak era garbage again. If the standard is so great today then why are John Higgins and Ronnie O'Sullivan still at the top of the game? Why are others in their late 30s and 40s getting better results than they did years ago? The answer is that the standard is worse than it was years ago. And please don't quote break building or century stats as they aren't relevant. The conditions today are heavily ladened in favour of breakbuilding . The cloths are thinner, the balls are lighter and the pack splits at a touch, and the pockets seem to swallow balls up that should never go in.

Just listing your all time top ten doesn't mean its true. It is just an opinion that counts for nothing.

'Achievements outweigh opinion every time' - Clive Everton

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Pink Ball

Johnny Bravo wrote:
sas6789 wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:
Snooker-Fan2016 wrote:Top 10 in terms of greatness:

1. Ronnie O'Sullivan
2. Stephen Hendry
3. Steve Davis
4. John Higgins
5. Ray Reardon
6. Mark Williams
7. Alex Higgins
8. Mark Selby
9. Ding Junhui
10. Jimmy White

Top 10 in terms of standard reached

1. Ronnie O'Sullivan
2. Stephen Hendry
3. John Higgins
4. Neil Robertson
5. Ding Junhui
6 Mark Williams
7. Judd Trump
8 Steve Davis
9. Jimmy White
10. Alex Higgins


GREATNESS:
IMO Alex Higgins is one of the reasons for snooker's ascension. From that perspective, he's ahead the likes of Reardon, Mark Williams and John Higgins.

As 4 peak ability/performance, Hendry is nowhere near top 3. From a break-building perspective, he's right up there with Ronnie, but he lacks the tactical and safety play to beat a top/peak form John Higgins or Neil Robertson.

How the hell can the player that has won the most world titles, ranking titles, majors, more years ranked world number one than any other player and has the second most centuries and 147's of all the players in the history be nowhere near the top 3 in terms of peak ability/performance?


Because he won those titles in a weaker era against weaker opposition. The standard of play was nowhere near as high as it is nowadays.


Current era is rubbish, well up there with the 90s in terms of its shitness.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Cloud Strife

Pink Ball wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:
sas6789 wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:
Snooker-Fan2016 wrote:Top 10 in terms of greatness:

1. Ronnie O'Sullivan
2. Stephen Hendry
3. Steve Davis
4. John Higgins
5. Ray Reardon
6. Mark Williams
7. Alex Higgins
8. Mark Selby
9. Ding Junhui
10. Jimmy White

Top 10 in terms of standard reached

1. Ronnie O'Sullivan
2. Stephen Hendry
3. John Higgins
4. Neil Robertson
5. Ding Junhui
6 Mark Williams
7. Judd Trump
8 Steve Davis
9. Jimmy White
10. Alex Higgins


GREATNESS:
IMO Alex Higgins is one of the reasons for snooker's ascension. From that perspective, he's ahead the likes of Reardon, Mark Williams and John Higgins.

As 4 peak ability/performance, Hendry is nowhere near top 3. From a break-building perspective, he's right up there with Ronnie, but he lacks the tactical and safety play to beat a top/peak form John Higgins or Neil Robertson.

How the hell can the player that has won the most world titles, ranking titles, majors, more years ranked world number one than any other player and has the second most centuries and 147's of all the players in the history be nowhere near the top 3 in terms of peak ability/performance?


Because he won those titles in a weaker era against weaker opposition. The standard of play was nowhere near as high as it is nowadays.


Current era is rubbish, well up there with the 90s in terms of its shitness.


Here's a frightening thought: I think the next era after this one could be even worse, a lot worse actually.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby davisfan

Well, who knows. That's the thing with the future.

Snooker today does feel a lot like the 80s heavyweight scene, pre-Tyson. And who could have seen him coming? Or, to hop sports, Usain Bolt?

"I never predict anything, and I never will" - Paul Gascoigne

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby PoolBoy

It's all a matter of opinion!
But - if a young player, with huge potential - like 16-year-old Yan Bingtao, expressed a desire to be the best player ever in snooker...what would he need toaccomplish to be regarded as that?

Thinking about that could 'focus minds' on what really matters.
For example, you can't possibly, by definition, be the best ever if you've not even been World Number 1 or World Champion!

Anyway, here's my Top 32:

Stephen Hendry
Steve Davis
Ronnie O'Sullivan
John Higgins
Mark Williams
Mark Selby
Ray Reardon
Neil Robertson
Ding Junhui
Cliff Thorburn
Shaun Murphy
Jimmy White
John Parrott
Peter Ebdon
Paul Hunter
Alex Higgins
Ken Doherty
Judd Trump
Dennis Taylor
Stuart Bingham
John Spencer
Stephen Maguire
Terry Griffiths
Stephen Lee
Doug Mountjoy
Graeme Dott
Alan McManus
Matthew Stevens
Mark Allen
Ali Carter
Joe Johnson
Ricky Walden

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Johnny Bravo

vodkadiet wrote:This weak era garbage again. If the standard is so great today then why are John Higgins and Ronnie O'Sullivan still at the top of the game? Why are others in their late 30s and 40s getting better results than they did years ago? The answer is that the standard is worse than it was years ago. And please don't quote break building or century stats as they aren't relevant. The conditions today are heavily ladened in favour of breakbuilding . The cloths are thinner, the balls are lighter and the pack splits at a touch, and the pockets seem to swallow balls up that should never go in.

Just listing your all time top ten doesn't mean its true. It is just an opinion that counts for nothing.

'Achievements outweigh opinion every time' - Clive Everton


Ronnie and John are still at the top of the game because:
1. they are the 2 best players in history
2. they have an amazing all round game
3. they have improved with time and they are much better all-round players than they were in the early 90's

Hendry never had a great safety and tactical game, hence his rapid decline, in his early 30's.

When I said that the standard is higher, I was especially refering to the game in general, not necessarelly top players. There are far more good players nowadays than they were in the early 90's.
You just have to take a look at the players ranked outside the top 10 from the early 90's.
Let's take a look from 10 to 30th in the rankings in the 1994-95 season:
10 Nigel Bond - average at best
12 Joe Swail - average at best
13 David Roe - average at best
14 Terry Griffiths - an old dinosaur, 47-48 years old
15 Willie Thorne - average at best, 41 years old
16 Tony Drago - nice to watch, but never great
17 Steve James - average
18 Martin Clark - unknown bum
19 Dave Harold - average
20 Dene O'Kane - unknown bum
21 Tony Knowles - average
22 Gary Wilkinson - unknown bum
23 Mike Hallett - decent at best
24 Dennis Taylor - old dinosaur, 45-46 years old
25 Neal Foulds - decent at best
26 Doug Mountjoy - oldest dinosaur, 52-53 years old
27 Mick Price - average bum
28 Jason Ferguson - unknown
29 Dean Reynolds - unknown
30 Brian Morgan - decent at best.

I'm a snooker enthusiast and I have barely heard of half of them, let alone the wider public.
Now how on earth can these guys compare to the modern players ?!

A young kid like Zho Xintong who's currently ranked 65 in the world (used to be 85) would probably beat most of them
Top players like Selby, Robertson, Trump, Ding - they would mop the floor with them
Ronnie in full flow would whitewash most of them

In order to win his titles, Hendry only had a tough match from the quarters at best, sometimes from the semis. Now how on earth that does not make this era harder ?!?

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Andre147

I would agree standard overall is higher now, the whole Tour is much stronger nowdays than they were in the 90s. Nowadays basically any player on the tour on a very very good day can beat the WN1 for instance, you didn't have that in the 90s.

However, standard from the Top players will probably never be higher than what it was between 97-2004.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby sas6789

Andre147 wrote:I would agree standard overall is higher now, the whole Tour is much stronger nowdays than they were in the 90s. Nowadays basically any player on the tour on a very very good day can beat the WN1 for instance, you didn't have that in the 90s.

However, standard from the Top players will probably never be higher than what it was between 97-2004.

That's an overstatement to say the least.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby sundaygirl

sas6789 wrote:
Andre147 wrote:I would agree standard overall is higher now, the whole Tour is much stronger nowdays than they were in the 90s. Nowadays basically any player on the tour on a very very good day can beat the WN1 for instance, you didn't have that in the 90s.

However, standard from the Top players will probably never be higher than what it was between 97-2004.

That's an overstatement to say the least.


Andre forgot to add (in that great ranking event called the snooker shootout)

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Johnny Bravo

Andre147 wrote:I would agree standard overall is higher now, the whole Tour is much stronger nowdays than they were in the 90s. Nowadays basically any player on the tour on a very very good day can beat the WN1 for instance, you didn't have that in the 90s.


That was my point from the beginning, that the tour is much stronger. Hendry only had 2-3 hard matches in order to win his trophies.
In the 94-95 season there were only 64 players on the tour. I just saw a guy named Steve Newbury, who was ranked no. 62. I am willing to bet that 99% of the people on this forum have never heard of this guy, let alone the wider audience. The only way this guy could beat a top player was if that top player would break his arm or get drunk before the match.


Andre147 wrote: However, standard from the Top players will probably never be higher than what it was between 97-2004.

There were some great players in that era. However, I think that was not Ronnie and John's peak.
Ronnie has played his best snooker from 2012 to 2014 and John from 2009 to 2011.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby PoolBoy

To put this to bed, there are numerous ranking events per season. It was as few as 6 at times, but as many as 19 this season.
But, what is consistent, is there is only ONE World Championship per season.

Hendry will remain the GOAT until his feat of 7 is surpassed.

Re: Pink Ball's Top 10 Players of All-Time

Postby Andre147

PoolBoy wrote:To put this to bed, there are numerous ranking events per season. It was as few as 6 at times, but as many as 19 this season.
But, what is consistent, is there is only ONE World Championship per season.

Hendry will remain the GOAT until his feat of 7 is surpassed.


That's your opinion.

For me if Ronnie wins 1 more Worlds he will surpass Hendry and become the greatest of all time. It's not all about the Worlds, but how consistent you are over an entire career, your contribution to the game, etc... Plus him winning another in his 40s would be one of the greatest achievments in Snooker.

For many, ROS is already the GOAT, and they are more than right to think of it that way. For me, Ronnie needs to win 1 more. If he doesn't, his legacy is more than established in the game.


   

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