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Who is the greatest player of all time?

Ronnie’s O’Sullivan
14
52%
Stephen Hendry
10
37%
Steve Davis
2
7%
John Higgins
1
4%
 
Total votes : 27

Re: GOAT?

Postby vodkadiet

It wouldn't have mattered would era a prime Hendry had played in, he would have battered them all. And secondly if O'Sullivan was the greatest it wouldn't matter what his opposition was. Federer wouldn't have been bothered what era he was playing in. He still would have dominated tennis.

And it isn't as if O'Sullivan has been beaten by nothing but greats at The Crucible. He has lost to players that Hendry would have slaughtered in his prime.

O'Sullivan's fans arguments have more holes in them than St. Andrew's golf course.

Re: GOAT?

Postby Ash147

vodkadiet wrote:It wouldn't have mattered would era a prime Hendry had played in, he would have battered them all. And secondly if O'Sullivan was the greatest it wouldn't matter what his opposition was. Federer wouldn't have been bothered what era he was playing in. He still would have dominated tennis.

And it isn't as if O'Sullivan has been beaten by nothing but greats at The Crucible. He has lost to players that Hendry would have slaughtered in his prime.

O'Sullivan's fans arguments have more holes in them than St. Andrew's golf course.


Hendry was still in his prime during the late 90’s to early 00’s, he just couldn’t compete with the new wave of talent that had come through. It’s no coincidence that as soon as that group of players started to play to their best that Hendry only won a single ranking tournament for the rest of his career. Hendry didn’t suddenly decline, the standard just improved immensely.

Re: GOAT?

Postby vodkadiet

The standard didn't improve immensely. The standard was just as high in the early 90s as in any other era.

The players today are particularly weak.

Re: GOAT?

Postby Badsnookerplayer

Ash147 wrote:
vodkadiet wrote:It wouldn't have mattered would era a prime Hendry had played in, he would have battered them all. And secondly if O'Sullivan was the greatest it wouldn't matter what his opposition was. Federer wouldn't have been bothered what era he was playing in. He still would have dominated tennis.

And it isn't as if O'Sullivan has been beaten by nothing but greats at The Crucible. He has lost to players that Hendry would have slaughtered in his prime.

O'Sullivan's fans arguments have more holes in them than St. Andrew's golf course.


Hendry was still in his prime during the late 90’s to early 00’s, he just couldn’t compete with the new wave of talent that had come through. It’s no coincidence that as soon as that group of players started to play to their best that Hendry only won a single ranking tournament for the rest of his career. Hendry didn’t suddenly decline, the standard just improved immensely.

bullocks - name the strong players who beat him.

Marcus Campbell rofl

Re: GOAT?

Postby vodkadiet

Hendry dominated for many years. O'Sullivan has never done that. Hendry won his 6th world title at 27. He had nothing left to prove.

Hendry's victory in 99 was the defining moment in snooker. With all the pressure and everything being on the line, Hendry rose to the occasion and claimed his greatest triumph.

Re: GOAT?

Postby Pink Ball

vodkadiet wrote:It wouldn't have mattered would era a prime Hendry had played in, he would have battered them all. And secondly if O'Sullivan was the greatest it wouldn't matter what his opposition was. Federer wouldn't have been bothered what era he was playing in. He still would have dominated tennis.

And it isn't as if O'Sullivan has been beaten by nothing but greats at The Crucible. He has lost to players that Hendry would have slaughtered in his prime.

O'Sullivan's fans arguments have more holes in them than St. Andrew's golf course.

Hendry didn’t dominate in his prime. He won a major.

Re: GOAT?

Postby Erza Scarlet

rekoons wrote:does this already include the fact he only played the worlds in the 12/13 season?
And wasn't he also nicked a tournament win because of pot use (don't remember which one, but it was against ken doherty iirc, also not sure if it was ranking or minor...)


He was disqualified and had the trophy taken away from him and handed to Doherty when he was caught with drugs. Can't remember if it was a ranking event or not. Sorry.

Not sure what you mean by "does this already include the fact he only played the worlds in the 12/13 season? ", if you mean the tournaments he skipped in that season are counted towards the total amount he's played in, then yes, I don't know why it wouldn't be.

Re: GOAT?

Postby vodkadiet

Erza Scarlet wrote:
rekoons wrote:does this already include the fact he only played the worlds in the 12/13 season?
And wasn't he also nicked a tournament win because of pot use (don't remember which one, but it was against ken doherty iirc, also not sure if it was ranking or minor...)


He was disqualified and had the trophy taken away from him and handed to Doherty when he was caught with drugs. Can't remember if it was a ranking event or not. Sorry.

Not sure what you mean by "does this already include the fact he only played the worlds in the 12/13 season? ", if you mean the tournaments he skipped in that season are counted towards the total amount he's played in, then yes, I don't know why it wouldn't be.


1998 Irish Masters.

Re: GOAT?

Postby vodkadiet

Pink Ball wrote:
vodkadiet wrote:It wouldn't have mattered would era a prime Hendry had played in, he would have battered them all. And secondly if O'Sullivan was the greatest it wouldn't matter what his opposition was. Federer wouldn't have been bothered what era he was playing in. He still would have dominated tennis.

And it isn't as if O'Sullivan has been beaten by nothing but greats at The Crucible. He has lost to players that Hendry would have slaughtered in his prime.

O'Sullivan's fans arguments have more holes in them than St. Andrew's golf course.

Hendry didn’t dominate in his prime. He won a major.


The best Hendry was in the 1993 World Championships. This Hendry was unbeatable by any player in any era.

Re: GOAT?

Postby Pink Ball

vodkadiet wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
vodkadiet wrote:It wouldn't have mattered would era a prime Hendry had played in, he would have battered them all. And secondly if O'Sullivan was the greatest it wouldn't matter what his opposition was. Federer wouldn't have been bothered what era he was playing in. He still would have dominated tennis.

And it isn't as if O'Sullivan has been beaten by nothing but greats at The Crucible. He has lost to players that Hendry would have slaughtered in his prime.

O'Sullivan's fans arguments have more holes in them than St. Andrew's golf course.

Hendry didn’t dominate in his prime. He won a major.


The best Hendry was in the 1993 World Championships. This Hendry was unbeatable by any player in any era.

I felt in 1993 that I’d never see greater snooker than Hendry’s that year, but I’ve seen comfortably better since. Hendry himself was probably better in 1999, when he won the tournament far less comfortably; and 2002, when he didn’t win at all.

I like Hendry, more than O’Sullivan, but O’Sullivan is greater. Higgins might be too. Perhaps he’ll overtake Hendry before his career is out. He doesn’t need to do much more.

Re: GOAT?

Postby vodkadiet

Hendry is the greatest player ever. Fact.

Re: GOAT?

Postby Pink Ball

vodkadiet wrote:Hendry is the greatest player ever. Fact.

Opinion.

Re: GOAT?

Postby Pink Ball

Hendry is barely the second greatest. He may well be third. I think that’s a far more contentious debate. He is clearly inferior to O’Sullivan. Higgins, not so sure, but perhaps.

Re: GOAT?

Postby rekoons

Erza Scarlet wrote:
rekoons wrote:does this already include the fact he only played the worlds in the 12/13 season?
And wasn't he also nicked a tournament win because of pot use (don't remember which one, but it was against ken doherty iirc, also not sure if it was ranking or minor...)


He was disqualified and had the trophy taken away from him and handed to Doherty when he was caught with drugs. Can't remember if it was a ranking event or not. Sorry.

Not sure what you mean by "does this already include the fact he only played the worlds in the 12/13 season? ", if you mean the tournaments he skipped in that season are counted towards the total amount he's played in, then yes, I don't know why it wouldn't be.


What I meant was if the 12/13 season, in which he only entered the WC, counts, or should count, as a whole season in his career. i.e. did he win all that he won in 26, 27 or 28 seasons...

Re: GOAT?

Postby rekoons

OK, get it now: 27 seasons including the 12/13 season.
not fully awake yet...

Re: GOAT?

Postby vodkadiet

The record books don't lie.

If O'Sullivan was the greatest he would have won more World titles than anyone else in the modern era.

I don't even think Hendry is that great. He is just the best of what there has been so far. Snooker hasn't had a truly great player as of yet. Not in comparison to other sports.

Compare any snooker player to Jahangir Khan, who went unbeaten for five and a half years.

I couldn't care less about these lists posters are drawing up to fit their biased agenda. It is World titles that count.

Re: GOAT?

Postby Ash147

vodkadiet wrote:Hendry is the greatest player ever. Fact.


Perhaps if you ate something other than seeds your brain might function properly.

Re: GOAT?

Postby Pink Ball

vodkadiet wrote:The record books don't lie.

If O'Sullivan was the greatest he would have won more World titles than anyone else in the modern era.

I don't even think Hendry is that great. He is just the best of what there has been so far. Snooker hasn't had a truly great player as of yet. Not in comparison to other sports.

Compare any snooker player to Jahangir Khan, who went unbeaten for five and a half years.

I couldn't care less about these lists posters are drawing up to fit their biased agenda. It is World titles that count.

I’d like you to enlighten me on what my biased agenda could be? I don’t care for either O’Sullivan or Hendry, but probably prefer Hendry. When he was on four world titles, I declared Hendry the best ever as he was playing against a higher caliber opponent to Davis in the ‘80s.

O’Sullivan came far closer to dominance in his prime than Hendry did. Hendry was not good enough.

You have allowed your judgement to be clouded by nostalgia, a big weakness of yours, and a strong dislike of O’Sullivan. I am cold, emotionless, calculating when it comes to this stuff. You need to be.

I say that as someone who holds you in high regard. We all have our weaknesses. Mine is that I’m a hammer.

Re: GOAT?

Postby Pink Ball

By the way, the current era is pretty shocking.

Re: GOAT?

Postby Dan-cat

Erza Scarlet wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:Great post. Love it.

Also:

Ronnie O'Sullivan: 935 (75.1%) of 1245 matches won
Stephen Hendry: 875 (68.9%) of 1270 matches won

75.1% > 68.9%


Yep. Underrated stat that one!


+1

Re: GOAT?

Postby vodkadiet

I get the fact that O'Sullivan is the most popular player and many will continue to try to elevate him to the greatest of all time status because of this. However, that doesn't wash with the record books.

O'Sullivan would tell you himself he needs to win 3 more World titles before the debate can be rested.

Achievements outweigh opinion every time.

Re: GOAT?

Postby HappyCamper

That world championships are the only thing that matters is just asuch an opinion as anything else.

Re: GOAT?

Postby Dan-cat

HappyCamper wrote:That world championships are the only thing that matters is just asuch an opinion as anything else.


Yeah, a sh*t one. :-D

Re: GOAT?

Postby Dan-cat

If that was the case Joe Johnson would be considered greater than Ding, for just one example.

Oh look I found a flaw VD.

Re: GOAT?

Postby Pink Ball

Dan-cat wrote:If that was the case Joe Johnson would be considered greater than Ding, for just one example.

Oh look I found a flaw VD.

Wow, watch out FBI.

Re: GOAT?

Postby Pink Ball

vodkadiet wrote:I get the fact that O'Sullivan is the most popular player

Not in my brain he ain’t.

Re: GOAT?

Postby vodkadiet

Where is the trophy for the GOAT? I have never seen it.