by Ash147 » 08 Jul 2019 Read
I know Brecel is still only 24 years old, but I do think he has underachieved so far. I remember when he made his breakthrough in qualifying for the 2012 WC, and he looked such a great talent for a 17 year old. Then when he made it to the Quarter-finals of the UK Championship the following season, losing a very close match to Murphy.
It's now 7 years later, and Brecel has achieved very little in the game. He's only made 2 finals, winning just 1 of those. He's done nothing in any of the majors, winning just one match at the Masters, only reaching the Quarter-finals of the UK twice, and he still hasn't won a single match at the Worlds.
So do you think Brecel has underachieved so far? If so, do you think he's able to turn his career around?
-
Ash147
- Posts: 8136
- Joined: 14 November 2018
- Walk-On: Baby Shark Doo Doo
by HustleKing » 08 Jul 2019 Read
Yes Brecel has definitely underachieved so far. A lot of overseas players seem to struggle psychologically in the TC's so I'm not sure if he will ever do really well in one of those events. He'll definitely win close to, if not more than 10 rankers though, as he can relax more when playing those events.
-
HustleKing
- Posts: 2383
- Joined: 16 December 2018
- Snooker Idol: Skyler Woodward
- Highest Break: 7
- Walk-On: De Hofnar - Zonnestraal (Mowe remix)
by Sickpotter » 08 Jul 2019 Read
The talent is there but it's taking a little longer than expected for the results.
Very similar to Trump IMO who also took longer than expected to break through.
The high expectations I think wind up slowing their progress as it's another added level of pressure others don't have to cope with.
-
Sickpotter
- Posts: 1527
- Joined: 05 October 2009
- Location: Toronto
- Snooker Idol: White-Hendry-ROS
- Highest Break: 147
by rekoons » 08 Jul 2019 Read
Expected him to have achieved more by now, yes.
All the talent, but he lost a few years I think by not living like a true pro, easy to do at that age offcourse.
I believe his best years are still to come.
-
rekoons
- Posts: 2638
- Joined: 15 November 2018
- Location: Belgium
- Snooker Idol: Bingo
- Highest Break: 36
by Ash147 » 08 Jul 2019 Read
Sickpotter wrote:The talent is there but it's taking a little longer than expected for the results.
Very similar to Trump IMO who also took longer than expected to break through.
The high expectations I think wind up slowing their progress as it's another added level of pressure others don't have to cope with.
A 24 year old Judd had still achieved a lot more than Brecel has now. He'd won 4 ranking and 4 minor ranking titles, as well as being in the final of the Worlds. Judd may have only just hit his peak, but his level of performance when he first had his break through in 2011 was better than anything Brecel has produced so far. Judd has always been a contender to win titles, even prior to his peak, but I don't get that feeling with Brecel.
-
Ash147
- Posts: 8136
- Joined: 14 November 2018
- Walk-On: Baby Shark Doo Doo
by rekoons » 08 Jul 2019 Read
I think what Dominic Dale said in his interview about youngsters from China vs. youngsters from GB also applies to Brecel, and actually probabaly all players outside GB.
There's a huge step up from being untoucheable in your country to settling in the top of the pro tour. they have to learn to grind harder, because opposition is much tougher.
I still think he can become a top player winning more tournaments. if the talent is truly there all that may be necessary could be a few % increase in discipline, shot choice selection, safety,... to make the puzzle fit
it seems to have worked for Trump last year...
-
rekoons
- Posts: 2638
- Joined: 15 November 2018
- Location: Belgium
- Snooker Idol: Bingo
- Highest Break: 36
by Dan-cat » 08 Jul 2019 Read
A couple of years ago he talked about changing his name to Luca Brecelery, and I feel it's a shame he didn't do this as it may have taken pressure off him. There is a precedent to this theory - Jimmy White famously changed his name to Jimmy Brown (he was being sponsored by HP Sauce) and it signalled an immediate upturn in his form.
-
Dan-cat
- Posts: 31524
- Joined: 20 August 2013
- Location: Shoreditch, London
- Snooker Idol: The Rocket + The Nugget
- Highest Break: 53
- Walk-On: www.instagram.com/dan_cat
-
by rekoons » 08 Jul 2019 Read
Is that true?
-
rekoons
- Posts: 2638
- Joined: 15 November 2018
- Location: Belgium
- Snooker Idol: Bingo
- Highest Break: 36
by SnookerFan » 08 Jul 2019 Read
rekoons wrote:<laugh>
Is that true?
The bit about Jimmy White is.
Don't remember anything about Brecelery.
-
SnookerFan
- Posts: 151044
- Joined: 13 December 2009
- Snooker Idol: Michaela Tabb
- Walk-On: Entry Of The Gladiators
-
by Iranu » 08 Jul 2019 Read
Dan-cat wrote:Some of it.
Can’t believe this troll’s a mod.
-
Iranu
- Posts: 41481
- Joined: 24 January 2010
- Walk-On: Fort Knox - Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds
by TheRocket » 08 Jul 2019 Read
You can call him underachiever but at the same time he has weaknesses.
From a technical point of view his bridge hand is too far away from the cue ball. Or too much cue hanging out between bridge hand and cueball if you wanna call it like that.
Then I'm not sure whether he has that "extra gear" which you need as a topplayer to overpower your opponents and make yourself stand out from them.
I havent seen any performance from Luca Brecel so far which made me think. 'Wow he can reach the heights of the very best'. Maybe he'll move up a gear in the future but so far he hasn't.
-
TheRocket
- Posts: 16431
- Joined: 23 September 2012
- Snooker Idol: Federer-ROS-Messi
by SnookerFan » 08 Jul 2019 Read
Iranu wrote:Dan-cat wrote:Some of it.
Can’t believe this troll’s a mod.
-
SnookerFan
- Posts: 151044
- Joined: 13 December 2009
- Snooker Idol: Michaela Tabb
- Walk-On: Entry Of The Gladiators
-
by Wildey » 09 Jul 2019 Read
TheRocket wrote:You can call him underachiever but at the same time he has weaknesses.
From a technical point of view his bridge hand is too far away from the cue ball. Or too much cue hanging out between bridge hand and cueball if you wanna call it like that.
Then I'm not sure whether he has that "extra gear" which you need as a topplayer to overpower your opponents and make yourself stand out from them.
I havent seen any performance from Luca Brecel so far which made me think. 'Wow he can reach the heights of the very best'. Maybe he'll move up a gear in the future but so far he hasn't.
Selby and Trump has Technical problems Selby swayes and Trump hits accross balls.
-
Wildey
- Posts: 64451
- Joined: 02 October 2009
- Location: North Wales
- Snooker Idol: Mark Selby
- Highest Break: 25
- Walk-On: the one and only
by TheRocket » 09 Jul 2019 Read
Good point Wild but when it comes to Trump his poor cue action has actually cost him a lot of matches. Despite all the success he's had with it. Particularly after the last season.
When he's on and has a good day like in the World final it doesnt matter much but on an average day he can miss any ball due to his poor technique. Also in the utmost pressure situations like a decider his cue action is a big weak point. There is a reason his winning rate in deciders is even below 50%. Which is quite low for a topplayer.
-
TheRocket
- Posts: 16431
- Joined: 23 September 2012
- Snooker Idol: Federer-ROS-Messi
by SnookerFan » 09 Jul 2019 Read
I don't really believe in underachieving in snooker. If you have the talent but not the temprement you won't win as much.
You need both. Talent alone isn't enough.
There's enough tournaments these days, it's up to you to maximise your chances to win.
-
SnookerFan
- Posts: 151044
- Joined: 13 December 2009
- Snooker Idol: Michaela Tabb
- Walk-On: Entry Of The Gladiators
-
by Wildey » 09 Jul 2019 Read
SnookerFan wrote:I don't really believe in underachieving in snooker. If you have the talent but not the temprement you won't win as much.
You need both. Talent alone isn't enough.
There's enough tournaments these days, it's up to you to maximise your chances to win.
That is actually a very good point.
People are hung up on how much ability you got but bottom line and all that matters is your ability to utilise whatever talent you have and win Matches and Tournaments.
-
Wildey
- Posts: 64451
- Joined: 02 October 2009
- Location: North Wales
- Snooker Idol: Mark Selby
- Highest Break: 25
- Walk-On: the one and only
by Ash147 » 09 Jul 2019 Read
I think most people here would agree that it's not all about talent. Players like Brecel and Lisowski show that you can't get by with talent alone. Both players have all the natural ability in the world, but they seem to be lacking in other departments. Even Ronnie can't just rely on his ability to win. The guy practices just as hard as anyone, and is clearly always trying to improve his game.
-
Ash147
- Posts: 8136
- Joined: 14 November 2018
- Walk-On: Baby Shark Doo Doo
by Iranu » 09 Jul 2019 Read
Wildey wrote:
People are hung up on how much ability you got but bottom line and all that matters is your ability to utilise whatever talent you have and win Matches and Tournaments.
Which is a talent in itself although it’s rarely seen as one.
-
Iranu
- Posts: 41481
- Joined: 24 January 2010
- Walk-On: Fort Knox - Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds
by Ash147 » 09 Jul 2019 Read
Iranu wrote:Wildey wrote:
People are hung up on how much ability you got but bottom line and all that matters is your ability to utilise whatever talent you have and win Matches and Tournaments.
Which is a talent in itself although it’s rarely seen as one.
Selby is probably the best I've seen at doing this.
-
Ash147
- Posts: 8136
- Joined: 14 November 2018
- Walk-On: Baby Shark Doo Doo
by Cloud Strife » 11 Jul 2019 Read
Luca Brecel is hugely overhyped IMO.
-
Cloud Strife
- Posts: 18566
- Joined: 28 January 2014
- Location: Antarctica
- Snooker Idol: Roger Federer
- Highest Break: 155
- Walk-On: Don Vedda - buck You
-
by Dan-cat » 11 Jul 2019 Read
Ash147 wrote:I think most people here would agree that it's not all about talent. Players like Brecel and Lisowski show that you can't get by with talent alone. Both players have all the natural ability in the world, but they seem to be lacking in other departments. Even Ronnie can't just rely on his ability to win. The guy practices just as hard as anyone, and is clearly always trying to improve his game.
Good posy
Oops I may have been on the sauce
-
Dan-cat
- Posts: 31524
- Joined: 20 August 2013
- Location: Shoreditch, London
- Snooker Idol: The Rocket + The Nugget
- Highest Break: 53
- Walk-On: www.instagram.com/dan_cat
-
by Andy Sparky » 11 Jul 2019 Read
rekoons wrote:I think what Dominic Dale said in his interview about youngsters from China vs. youngsters from GB also applies to Brecel, and actually probabaly all players outside GB.
There's a huge step up from being untoucheable in your country to settling in the top of the pro tour. they have to learn to grind harder, because opposition is much tougher.
I still think he can become a top player winning more tournaments. if the talent is truly there all that may be necessary could be a few % increase in discipline, shot choice selection, safety,... to make the puzzle fit
it seems to have worked for Trump last year...
Absolutely right that there is a huge step. The difficulty of bearing the flag for the whole of your country is something that Ronnie O'Sullivan would completely collapse under. Yet we somehow wait in expectation that a genius will emerge from a strange country!
-
Andy Sparky
- Posts: 89
- Joined: 25 December 2018
by Badsnookerplayer » 13 Jul 2019 Read
One thing is certain - the Belgian Bullet has time on his side.
Brecel first made his presence felt as a precocious potter when videos emerged of him on social media pulling off outrageous clearances and improbable centuries.
When the inevitable happened and he gained his status as a professional player, he often struggled to cope with the strategic nouse of battle hardened pros who had earned their stripes on the thriving amateur circuit.
Whether Brecel has the determination and stomach to refine his game remains to be seen. His laser-like focus around the table is often easily punctured when adversity rears it's head.
I believe he is a future World Champion, but the fearless Flandrian must take note of Judd Trump's newfound willingness to apply himself and adapt his game to the situation in hand.
Er is geen korte weg naar succes
-
Badsnookerplayer
- Posts: 26554
- Joined: 05 February 2017
- Snooker Idol: Bill Werbeniuk
by Ash147 » 13 Jul 2019 Read
Badsnookerplayer wrote:One thing is certain - the Belgian Bullet has time on his side.
Brecel first made his presence felt as a precocious potter when videos emerged of him on social media pulling off outrageous clearances and improbable centuries.
When the inevitable happened and he gained his status as a professional player, he often struggled to cope with the strategic nouse of battle hardened pros who had earned their stripes on the thriving amateur circuit.
Whether Brecel has the determination and stomach to refine his game remains to be seen. His laser-like focus around the table is often easily punctured when adversity rears it's head.
I believe he is a future World Champion, but the fearless Flandrian must take note of Judd Trump's newfound willingness to apply himself and adapt his game to the situation in hand.
Er is geen korte weg naar succes
-
Ash147
- Posts: 8136
- Joined: 14 November 2018
- Walk-On: Baby Shark Doo Doo
by rekoons » 13 Jul 2019 Read
Badsnookerplayer wrote:One thing is certain - the Belgian Bullet has time on his side.
Brecel first made his presence felt as a precocious potter when videos emerged of him on social media pulling off outrageous clearances and improbable centuries.
When the inevitable happened and he gained his status as a professional player, he often struggled to cope with the strategic nouse of battle hardened pros who had earned their stripes on the thriving amateur circuit.
Whether Brecel has the determination and stomach to refine his game remains to be seen. His laser-like focus around the table is often easily punctured when adversity rears it's head.
I believe he is a future World Champion, but the fearless Flandrian must take note of Judd Trump's newfound willingness to apply himself and adapt his game to the situation in hand.
Er is geen korte weg naar succes
I’m impressed with your flemish Baddie !
-
rekoons
- Posts: 2638
- Joined: 15 November 2018
- Location: Belgium
- Snooker Idol: Bingo
- Highest Break: 36
by Badsnookerplayer » 13 Jul 2019 Read
rekoons wrote:Badsnookerplayer wrote:One thing is certain - the Belgian Bullet has time on his side.
Brecel first made his presence felt as a precocious potter when videos emerged of him on social media pulling off outrageous clearances and improbable centuries.
When the inevitable happened and he gained his status as a professional player, he often struggled to cope with the strategic nouse of battle hardened pros who had earned their stripes on the thriving amateur circuit.
Whether Brecel has the determination and stomach to refine his game remains to be seen. His laser-like focus around the table is often easily punctured when adversity rears it's head.
I believe he is a future World Champion, but the fearless Flandrian must take note of Judd Trump's newfound willingness to apply himself and adapt his game to the situation in hand.
Er is geen korte weg naar succes
I’m impressed with your flemish Baddie !
I am a big fan of Flanders.
Cycling & cycling history, superb food and world's best beer- and my favourite artists and architecture. I would like to move to Belgium (or maybe Italy) one day.
-
Badsnookerplayer
- Posts: 26554
- Joined: 05 February 2017
- Snooker Idol: Bill Werbeniuk
by Ash147 » 13 Jul 2019 Read
Passief agressief.
-
Ash147
- Posts: 8136
- Joined: 14 November 2018
- Walk-On: Baby Shark Doo Doo